Shop insulation, help!

Okay, moved to the Portland, OR area (City of Sandy) and am blessed with a 40'x60 foot shop. Concrete floor, 14' vertically to bottom of trusses.
Siding and roof is corrugated metal. The bents and trusses are on 12' centers. Between the bents (posts) are horizontally placed 2"x6" runners, every 2 feet from the floor up to the rafter level. Stuff is rusting. I can deal with my mill and lathe by keeping them oily. However, I also need to store my 7 pin ball machines (old, electro-mechanical) for about two more years, until I can expand the house. I hate to see several hundred contacts, per machine, get pitted. Questions: 1) Wrap the machines in plastic and seal them? 2) Insulate the shop. 3) Is there any value to insulating shop if I am not going to heat in winter, cool in summer? 4) Subdivide? Build separate rooms within the shop and try to control the climate within?
In regards to #2 (insulate shop), how do you insulate a metal building? Ideas and web links would be appreciated.
Thank you in advance,
Ivan Vegvary
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Having once lived in PDX for 25 years I would not store anything in a building that will go unheated during the cold and or wet months insulation or no. Ah......what we in the NW call a pole barn. A friend of mine just had one built, it is insulated with a plastic covered batting over sheet Styrofoam which is under the siding. Contact a pole barn contractor in Sandy and ask him what he uses. If I were you, I would follow up on your idea of subdividing with a room big enough to hold your "toys" and heat it. Mike

house.
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house.
Insulation is a big help even without heat. The biggest contributor to rust is thermal cycling of the air around cold metal. Covering your machines will help some. Covering with a sort of "tent" and putting a small light bulb inside it is effective. In this climate you really need heat to avoid rust. I keep my shop at 55F to be safe. Below that is questionable. It is smaller and well-insulated.
The "right" way to insulate a pole barn starts with the insulating vapor barrier wrap installed between the shell and the skin - before the skin is screwed down. It has a low R value like 5 but the main benefit is that it seals the skin from air flow and prevents condensation dripping from the inside of the roof. You can add insulation inside the structure without having to mess further with a vapor barrier.
If you have just bare metal on the inside, you can stuff the walls with insulation and then cover the insulation and framing with plastic, drywall, plywood or whatever. Pretty big project for 40' x 60'.
The concrete floor may also be contributing if the ground is wet and the slab was poured without a vapor barrier. Not a whole lot to do about that. Tape a piece of plastic trash bag to the floor for a day to see how wet the slab is. Floor paint may help. If it is wet then heat is more important.
With a building that big I think your best bet is to partition it off. Perhaps on two levels with a heated insulated area above and an unheated insulated area below.
Bob
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Ivan Glad to hear you got here ok, when's the open house? As Toolbert explained the correct way is to add the "insulating vapor barrier" between the shell and the skin. Assuming that you don't want to deskin and redo there is an option in spray foam insulation. There's a company in Albany that does the process and I'm sure that there is a similar operation in PDX. Basically the foam seals and insulates from the inside. I've been in a couple of commercial shops with this done. I cannot speak to the out gassing and any other problems that may be involved with this process. When I built my shop, pole building, I used the insulating vapor barrier, and hot water heat in the floor. I have no rust in my shop and I only turn on the heat when I know that I am going to be working out there. The heat may be off for weeks at a time in the winter, still no rust. Contact me off line if you would like to visit, I a bit south of Salem. lg no neat sig line.

drywall,
that.
the
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house.
Add a relatively airtight partition, insulated on all four walls inside the structure---add a loft for a ceiling, insulate it too...........
Sheetrock interior of the partition, the temprature will stay relatavely constant because of the thermal mass of the concrete.
A small heater inside the partition set to keep the temp in the partition above 60 degrees should ward off ingress of moisture fairly well.
Welcome to the great northwest.
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Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Our building at work is insulated with wide fiberglass which has a fairly thick plastic vapor barrier. The plastic is supported transversely at regular intervals. I don't think you can get this type of insulation in any great thickness. I would check with steel building suppliers, such as Butler, and also with local insulation distributors. I'll take a closer look at our system today.
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If the temperature of the machinery (or anything) is less than the dew point of the ambient air, moisture will condense out of the air onto the machine. Period. You cannot stop this by sealing up the machine, unless the seal is airtight.
You stop condensation by keeping the machine warmer than the dew point. You can control the dew point somewhat by keeping out additional moisture, i.e., that which might come up through the concrete floor. But you still have to warm the machinery. Pick a way that's convenient for you.
For a couple of machines, I would probably wrap each in plastic, with a light bulb inside. I'd put a thermometer inside and adjust the bulb's wattage as required.
Bob
BTW - http://www.weather.com/ will give you your local dew point.
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Wrapping the machines in plastic will only work if you seal very well with desicant installed. Even then I would also put in humidity indicators. Just wrapping with plastic won't do much if anything.
The big problem with big machine tools in an unheated shop is that when the shop is cold the tools get cold and when the air warms up dew forms on the machines. To prevent this you can either supply heat to the machines or use a fan to blow air over the machines. This keeps the machines close to the air temp so dew does not form. If I had a large unheated shop, I would put in some fans.
For your pin ball machines, I would create up a room with plastic inside your shop and install a dehumidifier. When you get the dehumidifier, be sure to get one that will work at fairly low temperatures. Some models will freeze up when the temperature is below about 60 degrees.
For right now, I would install a bunch of infrared heat lamps at locations where you will be working inside the building. So you can have some heat say at the lathe, or if you are milling turn off the lamps at the lathe and turn on the ones at the mill.
Dan

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wrote:

I would go with this as several other have suggested. I'd only add that you consider including a sub-floor in your relatively small partitioned off area, depending on how you judge the existing floor is or is not contributing to moisture, and whether you'd like to use this same area for tools you want to mount directly on the slab.
Mickey
(Wet in Winter, drought in Summer, Victoria B.C.)
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Ivan Vegvary wrote:

If you are going to keep some heat in the shop, consider overhead radiant heating, arranged over the machines. That would keep you and the machines warm at far less cost than heating the entire space.
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