OT - Kidd class destroyers..?

Oh man, you should have ordered 3, cuz then you get a free eggroll.

The electronics suite can tell when an enemy's radar system is scanning them, and the proper countermeasures (signal jamming, chaff, pooping in pants) can be engaged. For an infrared seeking missile, the plane's sensors detect the heat plume coming up from the ground, then the countermeasures guy can release flares. Plus, the pilot can kill the engine and put the transmission in neutral (or just push the clutch in, if it's a manual transmission) then coast until the missile loses lock.

Mostly though, the newer U.S. planes are so fast that the pilots are in bed, passed out drunk on top their friend's wives, by the time the bombs they've released have reached their targets and killed this month's quota of innocent civilians. AMERICA! F*** YEAH! :-P

All US fighter aircraft have radar. All radar tracking missiles emit a radio wave. In the case of heat seekers (many of which are also radar targeted), the targeted acft must pick it up either visually or on radar. To ascertain whether or not the missile is "locked" requires that either 1) the missile emit a seeker radar that stops sweeping side to side and up and down after making solid contact or 2) the targeted acft detects that the missile is following the acft's every move and correction with what will ultimately be an intersecting course by detecting it on the target acft's radar or 3) the REO/pilot get a visual track. There is also a 4th possibility. If the acft is being directed by an interceptor WDtech or Combat Controller either on the ground or in an AWACS, that "scope dope" can track both the missile and the acft and warn the crew of an impending intercept.

Now as to destroyers, I don't know spit. But 7 years in the USAF and a whole lot of it on NORAD bases, kinda makes me "in the know" about intercept stuff.

Another technique that worked back in the 60s and 70s was to fly fast and low to the ground once you detected a IR missile on your 6. The heat from the ground would oftentimes confuse the missile much the same way radar guided missiles can be confused by ground clutter. Now days though, I would imagine that first class nations have equipment that can defeat such simple maneuvers.

Let's put it this way, just one of them accompanied by a single Harrier, could take out Taiwan's entire military in about 15 minutes.

The Scout Troop 214 (16 ten yearolds) would swoop in and establish a new government.

; )

Randy

Kidd Class Destroyer (DDG) commisioned 1981-1982 Crew 339 Speed: 30+ knots L 563.4 ft W 55 ft Draft 30ft ARMAMENT: Standard missles (2) twin launchers (8) Harpoons (1) ASROC (2)

20mm CIWS PHALANX (2) MK45 5 inch guns MK48 Torpedoes fired from (2) 12.75 inch triple tube. Not the latest AEGIS system but still a good KISS ASS well armed fighting ship. As to the other RHAWS (Radar Hazard And Waring System) detects the radar search/lockon from an aircraft, ship, or ground based SAM system. It indicates the type and bearing and with later ones the distance(approx) of the emitting radar. Aircraft and others use radar to initialy find and determine distance to target then use a radar directed mislle or IR seeker for the kill. In the case of radar missles there are two types SAR semi active radar, that needs to have the target illuminated by the attacking radar so the missle homes on the reflection, like a laser guided bomb, like a US Sparrow, or the Ative homing like a US Phoenix which is a fire and forget as it carries its own active radar to seek and home with. In the case of an IR missle like the US Sidewinder, in theory needs no radar and if used properly your target hasn't got a chance unless he knows your there. As said before though he will as he detected your initial radar tracking. One of the deadliest systems against low flying aircraft is a SAM-7 from the USSR/Russia etc. It is strickly visual launch with IR homing and you never know it is there until to late or maybe a wingman sees it. That is why A-10's and many other aircraft in the current conflict use sooooooo many flares. A lot of these were supplied to the Taliban and Iraq and nobody knows how many may be left out there and funtional. It is a nasty weapon limited in range (which is also why the pilots have a hard deck below) and use but if you catch one it is KMAG (Kiss My ASS Goodbye) time! Because you about to become FUBAR!

"tai fu" wrote in message news:do7mf9$pga$ snipped-for-privacy@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...

"tai fu" wrote in news:do7mf9$pga$ snipped-for-privacy@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:

Radars have different freqs and pulse rates for search,tracking and missile guidance.Combat planes have several antennas all over their airframes,that detect the radar emissions,and compare time-of-arrival from each antenna to give a vector to the source.All this data gets displayed in the pilots HUD(heads-up display).

For IR attacks,there are passive missile warning sensors,Northrop Grumman makes one,they optically scan using multi-band sensors to minimize falses.They detect the IR and UV generated by a missile plume,and give the pilot a quadrant from which the missile is approaching,to aid in evasion and best use of countermeasures. The Northrop system also has an optical jammer to confuse or damage the missile's seeker.(xenon tube or laser)

"nitram578" wrote in news:NGVpf.5447$ snipped-for-privacy@fe02.lga:

Not always,the SA-7 Strela (man-portable air-defense system,or MANPADS)has a small warhead,and only tracks on the hot tailpipe unlike the newer Igla series (SA-16/18) that is all-aspect IR homing.The SA-7 is old and obsolete.And they are strictly short range,less than 3 miles.But the SA-16s are being made by China,too,and are in circulation.

The latest Russian fighters,Mig-29,Su-27(and the F-14 Tomcat) have a cooled IR/optical search mode where they can detect an enemy fighter and launch an IR attack with using any radar at all.

globalsecurity.com is a good source for military hardware info.

While I appreciate the stark contrast between the US military and others such as Taiwan's (and hence enjoy the humor) I'm under the impression that while Taiwan's military may be small, that they are in fact quite effective. Is that right? Or am I all wet?

Doug

"Doug Sams" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mygate.mailgate.org:

Defense always has the advantage,I believe it is something like 5:1,you need 5 invaders to overcome one defender.

That all depends on the objective of the ivasion or what you may wish to do. A quick trip from say Wyoming in 30 minutes or less and mushrooms delivered free and double your order if not enough glowing shrooms. No invaders at all just two lonely guys doing college classes in a hole on the prairie.

Not necessarily. The MA-1, MG-10, and MG-13 AWCS could display visual imagery of infrared point-source targets.(i.e., jet engines) While radar was often used as a backup for target acquisition, all of these systems were capable of IR target acquisition independent of radar.

MA-1 (on the F-106) would continue to sweep radar after IR lockon. This was to fool the bomber's countermeasure operator into thinking the interceptor was still looking for him.

Always nice to meet another Air Defense weenie. Somebody had to protect SAC.

Bill Sullivan

I served on the U.S.S Scott DDG-995 for a couple of years and in my humble opinion, they are a very capable ship with a lot of defensive punch(not much on strike warfare tho' and as such the US Navy didn't see a need to keep them any longer. Nicknamed the Ayatollah class, they were originally commision for the Royal Iranian Navy and were just about to be delivered when the Shah was overthrown and the Americans working in the embassy were captured and held hostage. Based on the Spruance class destroyer platform with all kinds of Anti-air, surface, and subsurface goodies, I kind of think of them as a poor man's Aegis. In fact, under some circumstances, the Kidds perform better. This sale has been in the works for a long time now and a lot has hinged on US/China relations.

Jeff. p.s. the fighter will know that he is locked on the same way a speeder knows a cop is about to bust him for speeding Radar detector! this however does not work on an infrared guided missile as there are no emmisions from the weapon to detect. IF he is lucky enough to see the launch flume from the platform he might be able to employ some countermeasures but not always succesfully. This holds true for some of the modern anti-aircraft missiles that only rely on guidance for terminal phase of the intercept. Also, many missiles have a home on jam capability that will track the source of jamming and guide on it. Point is, in heavily defended area, strike mission weapon of choice would be a cruise missile. Second choice a stealth bomber/fighter operating in the dark.

That may be true when laying siege to a fortified castle, but I think most generals would agree that the best defense is a strong offense.

OTOH, the Bush administration keeps telling us that we (as defenders) have to be right 100% of the time, while the terrorists (as invaders) only have to be right once. :(

Taiwan is an odd case. The China that was one of the US WWII allies is now essentially Taiwan, while China has become one of those evil communist empires. Taiwan's defense is essentially rooted in friendship with the US.

I remember when Australia was first interested in buying F-18s. McDD would tout their fighting capability, etc., but Australia essentially said they did not care to shoot anything down, the just wanted to be able go up and see who is violating their airspace.

Alan

so can you shed some light as to what a AEGIS cruiser is and what is it for?

-- TAI FU

Alan Jones wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Or an island nation,and you have to land ground troops.

Well,Maybe I should have said "as a general rule",it's not set in concrete.

Not as invaders but as terrorists;IOW,killing innocent people thru terror acts like suicide bombings,or crashing jets into office towers. Whereas the President is charged with protecting the US people.

"nitram578" wrote in news:B5eqf.1234$ snipped-for-privacy@fe04.lga:

You seem to believe that the US would throw nukes at China over Taiwan,and I seriously doubt that would happen.

AEGIS class cruisers are for kicking the crap out of KIDD class destroyers :)

"tai fu" wrote in news:docs8m$85i$ snipped-for-privacy@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:

AEGIS is the premier anti-air defense cruiser for carrier group defense. The smaller destroyers are for anti-surface and anti-sub warfare,and as assists on anti-air defense.(not having as capable a radar as AEGIS)

AEGIS is a VERY powerful phased array radar and computer system that can locate,track many multiple targets and guide SAMs to intercept them,an entire air-battle management system.

globalsecurity.com,check it out.

Bill, have you and I met? The name seems familiar. I was a Weather Obs assigned to 24th NORAD at Malmstrom and to the ADC up at Tatalina AFS.