OT: OMFG, when will the insanity end...

Why would someone be arrested for giving someone else money? Course, we don't have subways here so maybe I'm missing something.

One shouldn't criticize the police officer. It is his job to enforce the

*stupid* laws as well as the common-sense ones. It probably has something to do with the tokens being considered some sort of non-transferable public property. One may "buy" them...but legally one only "rents" them.

Yep, and handcuffing the individual, while writing a misdemeanor citation, is also required enforcement. Safety of the officer my a$$, the cop was/is a moron with a badge.

Fred

Maybe you think so. I don't agree. In fact, I say the officer is an f'ina$$hole for doing it. No one is beyond being criticized for bad judgement - especially when they are bullying jerks.

Phil Ste>One shouldn't criticize the police officer. It is his job to enforce the

Police officers are public servants and are not above criticism. If anything, the fact that we entrust them with potentially lethal force mandates that they be held to a higher standard.

This matter could have been handled with a simple citation, the same as a traffic ticket. Instead, the officer handcuffed the guy and dragged him into the station. This is far and above more force than the situation called for.

Well, alrighty then... I truly didn't think law enforcement was looked upon with such disdain in this forum...look, I happen to be active law enforcement, and overall, I cannot see any wrongdoing or "bullying" on the part of the transit officer, at least not based on the slender thread of detail contained in the story. In my own experiences, I've found that cuffing someone CAN serve their own best interest. Let me present a scenario: lone officer is in a crowded subway terminal, surrounded by who knows how many people( in what is likely an urban environment, where law enforcement is looked at with much disdain,) and he observes an infraction taking place. Now, in many circumstances, especially where mass transit is concerned, standard protocol would require this officer to conduct a patdown on the individual. Now, bear in mind, we don't know if this guy was argumentative with the officer, or throwing a tantrum(i.e., gesticulating wildly, flailing his arms about), in which case the officer is expecting the subject to 'fight'. If any movement is deemed to be 'hostile' to that officer, he would have been justified in using capstun(mace), or even a taser on that individual. Actually the officer showed remarkable restraint in this instance. After all is said and done: Was the individual hurt? NO. Was the officer injured? NO. Just remember, it's notions like these, that the officers are the "bad Guys," that cause officers to use excessive discretion and extra care to maintain their OWN safety. Sorry for the rant. Just my 2 cents. Bob352

BS, what restraint?? "Handcuffing for such a misdemeanor citation is acting with restraint??" that's outrageous, no matter what you say, trying to justify such behavior for the offense citation mentioned, is nothing more than professional law enforcement paranoia.

Then at best, what you describe, "are officers who do not remember and practice there training, on controlling there emotions, or; they are possibly just an example of a moron with a badge.

By your reasoning, one could assume cuffing would be normal for simple mindemeaner trafic tickets.

Rant mode off just my 2 cents, but not intended to be directionally personal Fred

Handcuffing happens just about *every* time someone is arrested. If a high-school punk gets caught shoplifting a pack of cigarettes...he is handcuffed when the police escort him out. Even if the kid offers no resistance.

Wrong- depends. If you are being detained for questioning, yeah, then you are cuffed, and the miranda rights are presented to you. However, for transportation purposes, ALL persons detained are restrained.

Fred- Once again, without the benefit of knowing the full circle of events surrounding this instance, it would likewise be wrong of me to pass judgement on the officer's actions, indirectly or otherwise.Unfortunately, a**holes are abundant in all lines of work, as I'm sure is the case in your given profession. I just feel it wrong to have the "cops" reference used to to encompass the entire genre public servants who wear a badge--especially when our a***ses are on the line on a daily basis.BTW, no offense taken. Bob "step away from the keyboard, do it now!.."352

snip

1. It was judged by his superiors that the officer acted within the law.

1. It was also pointed out, agree with it or not, it's an officer's call whether or not to use cuffs.

If there is a problem here, it's with the law or policy, not the officer.

One thing to bear in mind is that much like Usenet, where you don't hear voice inflection or read body language to know what a person really means in a post, there's is no way to know what else the officer may have seen or heard or sensed, that's not in the article. If you're not there, you don't have all the facts to know if he had an option. If it had been me, I'd err on the side of what's safest for everyone, me included.

There are review boards to deal with these situations and most likely his board will look at this case. They will also look at his past record to determine if he's a hot head or acted with correct demeanor. From the little information in the article, it sounds like he may indeed have been too zealous BUT, since we weren't there we can't really know if he was over the top or not and to paint all officers as being that way, is definitely over the top.

I lost a close cousin answering a domestic disturbance call, because he didn't cuff a man because he didn't want to do that in front of his kids. But then the man didn't mind gunning him down in front of his kids. If my cousin had followed procedure more closely, he'd still be alive.

99% of the policemen I know and I know many, deserve a lot more respect than they are given.

That's my 2 cents.

Randy

The case in point required no arrest, just the issuance of a citation. The response by the transit police, under the circumstances, was over the top. Have you ever received a traffic citation for speeding or other misdemeanor traffic violation?? If so, were you cuffed? Hasn't been my experience..

Fred

The case in point required no arrest, just the issuance of a citation. The response by the transit police, under the circumstances, was over the top. Have you ever received a traffic citation for speeding or other misdemeanor traffic violation?? If so, were you cuffed? Hasn't been my experience..

Fred

I'm not questioning the position of law enforcement's a$$ in their daily duty, "been there done that". From what I read, the individual was observed committing the act, approached by the TA officer, ID,ed and notified of the misdemeanor offense, cuffed, cited on the spot, and then un-cuffed and that was that, "on the spot". If those are the circumstances, cuffing was/is not required and borders on, if not in fact, "the use of unnecessary/inapproiate restraint", which I believe you know, "can, but seldom happens, result in disciplinary action being taken against the offending officer".

Fred

I'm really curious as to how anyone knows this -- the story certainly gave no real indication.

I can imagine that the person was probably shocked that the cop would dare to give him a citation for this, and was probably a bit belligerent, and the cop may well have felt that handcuffs were necessary if the person was becoming out of control. Again, bear in mind that the place to fight the citation is in court with a judge, not in the street with the cop.

David Erbas-White

No, because in every case I've said, "Yes, officer, what seems to be the problem..." I can imagine my response would be a little different in this particular case, because I probably would have responded "WTF are you giving me this ticket for!!!", and would have received the same response the individual in question got.

I've also seen cases of minor traffic citations where the person became belligerent, or refused to sign the Notice to Appear, and sure enough, they were arrested and handcuffed.

David Erbas-White

Exactly.

The officer may have acted appropriately, he may not. The media can hardly be relied upon to give sufficient detail, or to present the facts without spin.

It's up to the courts to determine whether or not the situation was handled appropriately.

Regardless, it's pretty ridiculous that someone be ticketed for selling another passenger a token. But, the law does exist and the officer is just doing his job in enforcing it.

-Kevin

Yeah, but handcuffing someone just to write them a ticket?? That's just nuts. Sure, if someone starts freaking out and getting violent when the officer confronts them, that would warrant the cuffs. But there's no indication that was happening in this case.

Besides, the real issue is that there was no need to ticket the guy in the first place. The only reason the guy sold the token (at face value, BTW) was because the machine was broken. If the cop had bothered to actually listen to the people involved, he could have exercised a little common sense and human decency instead of ruining someone's entire day.

And no, I'm not "hostile to law enforcement". I simply believe that wearing a badge doesn't make you perfect or above criticism.

I should probably add here that I HAVE had an incident where there was absolutely no reason for the ticket, and my response SHOULD have been WTF is this for, but I shut up, took the ticket, went to court, and the judge reamed out the cop for issuing the citation...

Fortunately for me, both the evidence (on its face) and the fact that I had witnesses helped enormously -- that's not always the case.

David Erbas-White