[OT] Patriot Act renewed

Actually, it was a Brazilian, not a British citizen, and wearing a 'puffa' jacket in a heatwave, the guy didn't stop when the police asked him to, ran away from the police, then vaulted the barriers into the underground and ran straight onto a train. Given what happened the day before, I guess it's understandable the police were a little jumpy and din't want to take a chance he was wearing an explosives belt. And what would have said if the police tried to grab him on the train, he detonated explosives and killed more innocent bystanders on the train? It's a catch-22, and the police on the spot had to make a snap decision. Hindsight and detachment by several thousand miles from the scene are wonderful things Daniel - what would you have done if you were one of the policemen in those circumstances?

G.

From what I heard of the incident, it sounds like a job well done to me.

Randy

They shot ONE.

We shoot people all the time and NOT even when they are running away.

Police brutality at least in CA is wayyy out of hand.

Jerry

Poor brutalized felon jerry.

Well yes, the execution was well done, outstanding marksmanship etc., it the choice of victim that many quibble about.

Pop a cap in that mofo.

Given the chain of actions you ascribe to this individual, he sounds suicidal.

To answer the "what would you do?" Not have shot the fellow 5 times after having him on the ground. Were the situation extreme, perhaps once, but not FIVE times. Of course I suppose the MIB may have made an error and left his weapon on full automatic. Here's a link covering the incident:

Graham wrote:

And just which inalienable human right or rights did our Creator revoke that day?

Bill Sullivan

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." - Benjamin Franklin

Why do I feel like I am living smack dab in the middle of the Crazy Years?

Bill Sullivan

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." - Benjamin Franklin

Now ask yourself. You believe this individual has a bomb under his coat( the reason you are chasing him down) Do you shoot center of mass and hit and set off the bomb? Or do you shoot him to the head? Maybe knock him down first to make it easier but get it done before he sets that bomb off.

Dennis

Dennis, you're absolutely right about using a headshot instead of a torso shot in these circumstances - I was more concerned that they'd had to use 7 shots to the head from close in to be certain of a kill. I thought the maxim these days was quality, not quantity :-)

G.

Just curious, but exactly what kind of explosives that are used by terrorists would be 'set off' by being hit by a bullet?

I thought one of the points of a torso shot was that you had a better chance of hitting the target, rather than missing the head (and often having the bullet glance off the skull).

David Erbas-White

I've been wondering this exact same thing for forever and day. What are these explosives that these terrorists are using?? Are they mixing it up themselves? Buying on the black market? Wouldn't be ANFO would it?

Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Depends on the bullet, also the type of explosive and the detonator too. What if a bullet were to set off the triggering circuit/mechanism?

Also, if He had been a suicide bomber, a head shot would prevent Him from committing suicide. Unfortunately for all those involved, the Guy was not a suicide bomber. Just a Darwin award winner.

Dave, it's not the bullet that would detonate the explosives, more likely the terrorist. A headshot's pretty much going to remove any chance of the terorist pulling his arming wire on the explosives belt, whereas with a torso shot, it'll hurt like hell but even if the guy's on the deck, one or both of his arms will still function to pull the wire. Even with a shot directly through the heart, the brain & body will still function for sufficiently long to pull the wire.

I guess, in the coldest possible terms, it's a matter of taking out the non-redundant link in the chain - two arms, 2 legs, one brain. Under normal circumstances (i.e where the target isn't suspected of carrying a bomb, you're absolutely right that a torso shot would be preferred for the reasons you gave, and that it's less likely to be fatal too.

G.

Unlikely it was ANFO, in large quantities, it's cheap and effective, in small quantities it's less effective and more suited to blowin' Bob and Bubba's stump. (tree stump, that is!) ANFO would also be harder to detonate than more powerful and less stable compounds. Suicide bomber's don't care about safety.

It's been reported over here that they're making acetone peroxide and packaging that in foodsaver boxes of about 6 litres. It appears to be a very sensitive explosive, susceptible to flame/heat and shock.

Chris

See my other post.

The idea is not to just get a hit but to destroy the brain stem to stop any reflex actions/post mortem spasms from closing a switch or whatever to detonate a bomb.

Chris

I guess everybody kind of missed one of my points.

You would have to be an absolute EXPERT marksman to hit a moving subject in the head with a handgun at any kind of distance. My 'supposition' would be that you take your first shots at the torso to maximize your chances of hitting him (and not hitting innocent bystanders), then once he's down, you can take your headshot (assuming he's still moving and/or a threat). The fact that they CHOSE to use a headshot FIRST is what has me confused, especially in a country where the vast majority of the police force doesn't even have firearms training.

I should add that I don't watch much TV, so I don't know if there's video of what happened -- if it was from 2-3 feet away, I stand corrected, but anything farther than a few feet, and I'm just surprised...

David Erbas-White