[OT] Patriot Act renewed

What about a dead-man's switch? I would think that would be the perfered method.

-Aaron

Yep, but these guys appear to be having some technical difficulties at the moment. I guess thay'll get the refinement if they are allowed to go on.

G.

Dave, they were in a crowded space with solid walls which maximise chances of ricochet, and were obviously close enough to jump on top of the guy - the reports I've read so far indicate that these police were on top off the guy when the first shot was fired.

And you're right about the marksmanship needed with a handgun to hit a small moving target whilst under stress. Most SO19 carry H&K MP-5s, which are nice & accurate in single-shot or semi-auto (SAS used them too), but a bit bulky for close in or pursuit work. As Chris said, SO-19 are pretty much an elite, and train regularly with firearms, so they're the exception, rather than the rule.

G.

SHHHHH!, don't give anybody any ideas.

From the eyewitness report I read, they were closer than that.

I've seen agents here in the US practice at a gun club and while they are moving empty a clip into head shots on silhouettes at 25 yards.

They seem to be training to do head shots for a reason.

My town has many expert marksman civillians, so I hope our agents are as good or better ;-)

UK special agents are best of breed I hear, like special forces.

In da hood, quantity makes up for lack of quality. 8-)

trained based on the Israeli experience for this job.

What I keep wondering about is WHY did it take 5 shots from these "specially trained" elite armed doughnut munchers to do the deed at close range? It just doesn't sound quite right.

Oh, I dunno. It might be interesting to see the BATF test them for effectiveness.....I mean that their job to regulate various boom-booms and toys, right? Bet they'll have better success than they did with our "WMD's" ;-)

To prevent an effective legal defense and any chance of a civil lawsuit based on information contained inside the head.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail." -Lotfi Zadeh

Jerry

He didn't have any explosive.

They had no "probable cause" to believe he had any explosive.

They were simply using a take down technique one would use IF a person had explosives.

Their right to life be damned.

Jerry

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail." -Lotfi Zadeh

Why do you think it's five shots from just one shooter?

Chris

The poster's phraseology (doughnut munchers) reveals his motivation... 'e hates coppers, 'e does.

Why not 5, or 10 or 15 bullets? Dead is dead, it's just a waste of lead. No more, no less.

Don't worry jerry, your safe. Everybody knows there's nothing of value inside your head.

If that's the case then I like to think that after the first shot the others would get a clue the guy's been popped. I would. That's another one of those "quick reacting, snap decision" type things this whole discussion is about.

coppers, 'e does.

No, I have a general distrust of authority figures, borne out by seeing abuse of that said authority they're entrusted with. From the Bushwhacker puppeteers when they decide which candidate will win the next election to the cop in the street intimidating a citizen with his power so they'll meekly accept the ticket he's writing them. Abuse of power is unacceptable by the ideals this country is supposed to be following. BTW, "coppers" is a little too archaic a term. So archaic it gives a romantic and stylish connotation that makes one think of the old gangsters from the movies. Were I to choose a derisive and archaic term it would be "pig" from the 60's era. I use the term "doughnut munchers/pastry patrol/etc" as a satirical trivialization of those that deserve it, in the style of Arlo Guthrie, without it carrying over on those that don't. At least not so bad that it can't be just dismissed as another incarnation of the stock imagery that's out there. But, if you really insist, I can be a cliché and blanket "hater of coppers". And if you're going to pigeonhole me, do it with some style and show you've some letters about you. I prefer being called a "thought-crime duck quaker", personally.

more, no less.

It's a waste of training too if it takes 5 shots from a "highly trained" person(s). I could do it with one squeeze of the trigger at that range and I don't have their training, or even have picked up a gun in about 20 years.

Chuck D.

Nah, not worth the effort for a quickie jibe. Feel free to think of me as the village idiot, or ignorant git, etc..

I do find "thought crime duck quaker" intriguing, though. Is that something like Daffy dressed like the man on the container of Quaker Oats?

You can't stay on ANY topic can you?

And what about the deadman type switch, where if the guy is killed, the switch is released and the bomb goes off.Shooting the guy in the subway could just as easilly have triggered a bomb, as prevented it from being triggered.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!