[OT] Shuttle grounded again

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I have heard it discussed.
Dave

Len Lekx wrote:
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It's a awful big leap from "I have an idea" to NASA is criminally negligent because they haven't implimented my great idea. How much research have you done to prove that any kind of netting would help?
Mario

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:51:42 -0500, Mario Perdue
I was indeed hasty in my statement, and I retract it.
Sorry...

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Problem is claimed to date from when Freon was discontinued and a new foam formulation used,causing adhesion problems.
Maybe the ET was originally just painted white and they decided to use foam to prevent ice like the old Saturn rockets had dropping off upon launch.

Jim Yanik wrote:
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They always had foam.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:44:53 -0700, David Erbas-White
How many rocket-scientists does it take, to come up with a practical idea for preventing foam shedding? :-)
I'm surprised that nobody came up with the idea of covering the foam with a lightweight fabric wrap. A single layer of kevlar would prevent the foam from flying away from the tank, yet only decrease the orbiters' payload capacity by less than a ton.
Too simple a concept, I guess...

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Two words - duct tape.

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Seriously, why not fiberglass cloth over the foam to hold it all together?

kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote in
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Well, I think the "big mesh bag" idea would work well, and be lighter than a "solid" layer of fiber plus resin. What about encorporating a re- enforcing material INTO the styrofoam (glass or kevlar fibers). It's done with a lot of things, from concrete to pyrotechnic mines and comets.

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This sounds like a good idea. Can it be incorporated into a minimally-expanding foam? You would want the lightest fibers that give sufficient strength. (excludes glass)

kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) wrote in wrote:
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Why not shrink wrap film,like what's used for palletized shipping?
Or maybe a giant condom.8-)

Jim Yanik wrote:
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Giant You say? :)

snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAM.rogers.com says...
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I say use chicken feathers.

It's awful arrogant of you to assume that:
1) in 5 minutes without knowing any details of the engineering, that you can come up with a solution that will work better than what they have 2) in 5 minutes without knowing any of the details, you can come up with an idea that no one on the space shuttle team has ever thought of.
Do you get upset when someone second-guesses your job? Knows what is best without having any idea of what you have to deal with? Then quit doing it to everyone else.
-- David
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I know, but that doesn't mean that the armchair quarterbacks are right.
-- David
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Like a broken clock . . .
Remember that Shuttle was specifically engineered to be a 50 state jobs program, not the "best engineering solution to a stated problem".
Watch out.
Jerry

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Actually, it's happened several times. In my line of work, I tend to be closer to the problem than the engineers are... and can come up with solutions that, when presented, are adopted as the better course of action.
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Granted.
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Matter of fact, my work is second-guessed all the time. And no, it doesn't upset me... because my knowledge isn't perfect, and I realize that different people can see things from perspectives that I don't.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:44:53 -0700, David Erbas-White
Since the foam appears to be sprayed-on and cured in-place (similar to the two-part polyurethane foam many of us have used), I have an idea:
Simply stretch some kind of "netting" woven out of fiberglass, kevlar, or carbon fiber over the outside of a bunch of foam spacers that have been glued at intervals to the surface of the tank (or "dollops" of the same foam), and then spray on the foam so that the netting is embedded just below the surface of the final foam layer. To visualize this, think of a high-tech cross between the nylon mesh netting that forms a "carry bag" for Butterball turkeys, and the wire mesh supported on concrete blocks that is used for reinforcing poured concrete slabs, like driveways.
The fiber net would be lightweight, but very strong in tension, and would "toughen" the surface of the foam, holding any cracked pieces larger than the gaps in the net firmly in position. That way, even if the foam cracks into huge chunks, it won't fall off the tank and damage anything during ascent.
- Rick "dollops?" Dickinson

Rick Dickinson wrote:
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Not that it's not a good idea, but it's about the 89th time I've seen it -- don't know why it's not been adopted. I joined in some discussion about it with folks right after the Columbia disaster, but the 'consensus' seemed to be the weight factor. My attitude would be that if a little weight saves their lives, maybe it's worth it?
Don't feel bad, I suggested the same thing myself back then, and then found all the other folks who'd made the same suggestion... <G>
David Erbas-White

David Erbas-White wrote:
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How much does 13,000 square feet of Kevlar weigh?
Mario