OT Boeing strike

True enough things are always changing however increasingly there is no opportunity for redeployment because employment opportunities simply vanish from the local community to somewhere distant that is impossibly cheap. To my way of thinking 'smart' people also have a symbiotic responsibility of looking after others rather than exploiting and abandoning them. Perhaps someone can explain to me as a foreigner the subtlety of why Americans readily jettison their fellows at the least sign of personal financial disadvantage. Is life really so mercenary that slash and burn industry can be the only way? The global village ought to be raising people up not casting them off and trading on the lowest common denominator. Unions could be active in helping the poor get a better deal and in doing preserve their own members opportunities but perhaps at a lesser more realistic income level. complex subject....

Reply to
neil
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I hope that the average American citizen isn't like that. I once had an Argentine give me his view on US citizens, and how they treated eachother. He said that the biggest difference he could see was that the Argenties acted like they were your best friend, until you needed something. However, he said that if you were friends with the US citizen, the US citizen would give you the shirt off his back.

No, because eventually those businesses get such a bad reputation that they eventually produce such sub-standard parts that they shrivel up and die.

In an ideal world, I would agree with that. However, we don't live in an ideal world. There are a lot of abuses of the system. I have heard about how a union would accept children as members so that when those children grew up they could get a higher union mandated pay rate. That would be fine, if the pay rate was based on experience, but it wasn't, it was based on years in the union. The union that was originaly set up to protect the interest of the worker, only protected the legacy families who had figured out how to manipulate the system. The union was not fair to its own members.

Reply to
YouGoFirst

You could see it that way, where a Mayor and Governor of a state used the state revenues for their own purposes, rather than spend money on building up the structures that protect their city. Then once a company, or in this case a city, collapses, rather than taking the blame for mismanagement, they blame their superiors for not doing anything. Then while the blaming is going on, private citizens rally around the displaced victims and do what they can to help them get back on their feet.

We already are moving towards a more socialist state. Look at all of the government welfare and sponsored programs that are out there.

What do you mean by the beginning, that decline has been going on for quite a while, it is just more noticible now. As far as I can tell, the decline has been going on since the 1930's and is only now comming to a point where the average person can see it.

I think that we will eventually get to a day where the middleclass rises up and does something to correct the nation's woes.

Reply to
YouGoFirst

I am going to an "Outsourcing" convention in a week. Why? I have to keep costs down, or cease making at least some products. Meanwhile, I am going to try to get ready to do automated assembly of a simple device direct from molding machine to finished product, so the jobs can be... KEPT IN THE U.S. eventually.

It will be the highest form of labor in the U.S. and relieve the people here of doing drudge work. No one wants to assemble widgets all their life for $10-15/hr, and then have those jobs taken away with no replacement, when a foreign competitor takes the sales away.

Automation has gotten a lot cheaper with more options now than ever, and designers are increasingly designing for automation, as I do.

3 keys to success: Learning, more learning, & application to constant advancement.

Bo

Reply to
Bonobo

well that's good.... but this is what I am considering doing as well... and where I live our pay rates are half yours...and we are under pressure too...so that tells you how difficult life is going to get for everyone. I only need go to the local supermarket to see goods made in China flooding in- typically these are selling for 2/3 of the cheapest previous bargain price. We have little in the way of manufacturing locally being still largely based around forestry,fishing and horticulture so people are not too upset to get cheaper wares because it doesn't directly affect them...yet...but there is no way anyone in their right mind would now think of setting up a factory here to be globally competitive so the future is rather bleak....

Reply to
neil

Many of the nations where our manufacturing is going on could use some unions. There the workers would be able to get working conditions that wouldn't kill them off after several years.

Reply to
YouGoFirst

Except...for the obvious, which requires a very hard financial look at things.

If you can redesign something that is rather simple (doable for a small company or individual), reduce the number of parts or take it to one part & improve the functioning of the product, that is half the battle.

Then simultaneously in the design process cost out a way to do semi-auto assembly and fully automatic assembly and understand if you can then undercut the competitors.

That is where the high level work can come from. That is what will keep jobs here.

Bo

Reply to
Bonobo

I grew up in Oregon and left because I couldn't see working for the forest products industry (designing chain saw blades in the 1960s just didn't excite me).

Now however, I can see why bringing in "hi-tech" or more automated production to Oregon makes sense. They have fairly well educated people and unemployment that means lots of workers are avaialable.

My brother designs products there in Oregon and there is a surprising amount of manufacturing going on there, so it is possible to get a rebirth of mfg over time. It took a decade after I get it going, though.

It happens with a person with one truly better idea and one company at a time.

Reply to
Bonobo

Thanks for the positive thoughts. Locally I face an uphill battle because most people are not concerned enough with the significance of what is happening around them as long as their pay goes into the bank each week.... It has to be said that although they are good people they not particularly well educated or applied and as a general statement this country is poorly governed and led... I am afraid we are going to be cut out of a future unless we can get 'some' temporary protectionism going....yeah I know but we are a very small country still trying to develop balanced sectors of the economy....presently we have such an open door that we rate no.3 behind Singapore....hence the 'gifts' in the supermarket Our smartest people leave for overseas - better pay - more challenging work...usual stuff.. As you mention development takes time and commitment to do with less for the long term gain.... Like you I can see labour needs to be cut - but here sophistication has to rise. It is very sad that the world is being geographically straight jacketed this way. Although I am not in forestry myself your brother might worry in the future someone with lower wages from a country like NZ will make his products uneconomic no matter how well or efficiently they are made in the US. Locally we have a forestry equip manufacturer - good product - but low and behold one of his potential customers sends a fax of a product he can get for 1/2 the price - looking closer at the picture in the fax the product is a copy of their one made in China.... Trying my best... neil

Reply to
neil

I tend to agree with you Neil. It's a life style decision to stay in NZ. I've been fortunate in the last few years that the majority of my work has been for offshore clients. I guess I'm one of those cheap outsources, but it suits me fine.

...and I'm voting for a change of government.

Cheers.

Reply to
Cam J

well I don't blame you at all Cam, really I wonder why I persist...oz has looked very attractive to me quite often. I would like to think a wallpaper change would be helpful but I think foremost we need to change our self defeating culture and this is somewhat harder than ticking a box or two. This would be about 25 years overdue....maybe there is still time but it had better be soon or there will only be scraps to pick over. regards neil

Reply to
neil

My brother is actually a PHD physicist designing photonic test equipment which get used to test & debug fiber optic lines.

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His company he works for, though small, brings needed higher tech jobs to an area very much like Auckland.

I currently have bought a couple plastic molds from a company in Auckland, with good success. Fair pricing and great service. I sold an interest in one of my companies to F&P 20 years ago, and have good memories of N.Z. I'm looking forward to more work (& maybe play) with N.Z.

I see N.Z. as being in need of a real supercharged sales effort aimed at both OEM products and finished consumer items, which can be targeted to raise awareness in the U.S. Some slogan along with government and trade groups presenting a united front would help: "NZ Now". NZ government does need to promote its capabilities of its citizens, as a part of helping to grow its economy.

It is difficult to do international trade promotion without manufacturing trade groups that target specific niches, because the costs are large, but the benefits can ultimately be there. F&P in Auckland is large enough to do a good business on its own, and establish both medical and consumer product lines in the U.S.

Reply to
Bonobo

sorry, I picked up the wrong interpretation from your post re forestry.... yes NZ needs many things to happen...it is very frustrating...realistically though we are not ready to promote ourselves - we need to get organised and build capability and capacity first...in the mean time y'all better keep seeing NZ films to keep us alive down here ;o)

Reply to
neil

Bonobo

Could you please send me the link to where you found the report abou

Shell and the shale report

My company has ties into that and I am interested in the article

Thank

Reply to
cadnutcase

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A quick Google search will turn up much more.

Bo

Reply to
Bonobo

Baloney.

Jobs go overseas for the usual reasons, 75% because it is trendy. Probably 15% because theoretically useful usenet groups get taken over by off-topic threads...

Can we go back on topic now, please?

Reply to
autobus_prime

we sure can - my apologies for the wide OT diversion folks... as a closer however...I think you underestimate what's happening considerably - it is a trend but it is actually about smart money getting out of America - a lot of analysts are picking that about 2040 the US will be an also ran in world affairs...which will be an uncomfortable thought for many to grasp. neil.

Reply to
neil

To amplify a bit Neil, what I think is happening is a bit more complex, with longer term implications.

I manufacture several types of medical products. Some are so simple with so little skill, and the pricing in the U.S. is so low from our competitors, that in order to compete, I redesigned the product to perform better, use less material, mold faster, & assemble easier, & produce it in Mexico. This allows me to compete and gain market share with now what is a superior product, over the competitors.

As time goes on, I hope to automate the assembly & do it back in the U.S.

It is never simple, easy, or the whole picture clear, but in its own way, offshoring is an advancement which can ultimately bring gains to us.

It is obvious that we need a forceful U.S. government to not allow our companies to be steamrolled in various ways. We need to lobby our legislators on some foreign trade & currency valuation issues.

Reply to
Bonobo

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