OT: Do you have in place formal drawing approvals?

Depends on the purpose of the drawing. If it's going to be used in a trade study typically all you see is the name of the person who produced the design/drawing. If it's to make a part it goes from Drafter/Designer-->Drafting Manager-->Engineering. Depending on the complexity of the part it may pause somewhere in that process while various options are being evaluated and maybe it gets kicked back down for changes to make manufacturing simpler/cheaper. But then I work for an aviation company and as you might imagine CYA is the name of the game.

TOP wrote in news:1187524858.850651.168580 @q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com:

Engineering is us, quality and purchasing don't have direct input to designs, and approvals are not noted on drawings. This leaves checking, which we do ourselves. We are a job shop, so our designers work very closely with the shop to get things done as quickly and effectively as possible. Drawing errors are caught anywhere between 1 and 3, though 1 is not as formal as described, and 3 is limited to our shop floor (we never take design only jobs). With our usual deadlines, it's more important to have the drawings package in the shop early than it is to have every error eradicated.

TOP,

At my current employer, we have a procedure for drawing approval. All Drawings are sent to an engineering checker to check for drafting errors and ommissions, and then they are forwarded to a manufacturing engineer who verifies producability of the parts and then routes the parts. Routing consists of identifying which work centers the parts go to and what operations are perfomed there and how long it should take to produce the parts. No one but the engineer verifies form, fit, and function. We produce packaging machinery primarily for the beverage industry. We run SWx2006 and SmarTeamv5 equipped with WorkFlow. Errors still get through, but most are caught before machining and assembly.

Reaper.

We don't have any formal system of signoffs. I will often send out a preliminary release of a drawing and/or model to see if the folks on the receiving end see a problem with it. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they are too busy to check it carefully and problems slip through anyway.

Jerry Steiger Tripod Data Systems "take the garbage out, dear"

The basics for drawing sign off is drawn by, checked by and approval (typically this is done by an engineer).

If you add more to insure a complete drawing, producability (ability to manufacture item) or any other process, this just adds to the time to release. I had at one time 7 signatures on a drawing, took 1-2 weeks to get drawing approved. We took it down to the basic 3. yes we found that errors were not being caught by the limited group. But instead of expanding the signatures again we got better at checking and making the part producible. You can even have the down line checkers give a presentation on what they normally find for errors. You will find commonality and you will start finding these errors and manufacture-ability items yourselves.

Engineering has to be responsible for the drawings and the design.

There is nothing like the face of an engineer on a shop floor when machinists point out missing or incapable information on a drawing, absolutely priceless. Of course these items should be compiled and presented to all checkers and drafters so everyone sees the mistake. Better yet is to take the responsible drafter/checker with you when the call comes in from the shop floor. 3 red faces are always better than 1. iQ

At one of the previous places I worked, if the shop floor found a silly error on a drawing, a team of them would come up to the drawing office and sing an embarrassing song to the designer responsible! Quite an incentive.....

John H

on a drawing, a team of them would come

So I'm not alone.....;-) Nothing like it being sung out throughout the building to eliminate silly errors.

-Joseph

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com...

error on a drawing, a team of them would come

But the converse is not allowed. When the forming department bends the parts backwards you are to be empathetic and ask them meekly, "hey is there something I can do to make the print clearer?", without using the phrase "you idiot", and also helpfully pointing out that the print shows them the bend direction, all they need do is look. That's being a team player - no mocking singing allowed!

As part of our ISO/Corrective Preventative Action program we collect engineering errors that get to the shop. Our categories include layouts (correct part development), routings, programs (cnc code errors,) revisions, and print information. From this we will develop a guide for which parts get reviewed, based on probably errors and possible cost impact.

Diego

Diego, this is great to follow this with metrics, they allow you to focus on where the real problem lies. Great work. iQ

Thanks all for the input. It certainly makes a difference as to how closely you work with the shop and the speed necessary to turn around jobs. And certainly it seems like some industries by nature have to have a decent checking system.

We have an additional signoff that I haven't seen elsewhere: Modeled By. There is a simple reason for it and that is that some processes use the model and not the drawing. Modeled By and Drawn By take the least time to get. And if a different person makes the drawing they need to know the modeler is done. This is a consequence of working

TOP

In our world, the Drawn By is the same as the Modeled By.

I think that the important concept here is that the later that an issue is caught, the more costly it becomes. It is obviously least costly to fix it before it ever leaves Engineering, and most costly to fix it after the customer has received the product. It also never seems to be a linear curve between the two points but usually an exponential one. Once in production, time is of the essence and usually issues are caught only after material has been modified and is now scrap.

The system we use is a PLM where all approvals are in the electronic system. Our title blocks only have a spot for originator which is typed in. Our revision blocks have a spot for rev by, also typed in before submitted for release.

Matt Lorono

That's interesting. Does the title block note that all approvals are electronic and documented in the PLM?

TOP

No, because the PLM itself is the source of all information, including the drawing (in PDF format).

Matt