RE:7018 Rods

dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start dave seman wrote:
> >>dave seman wrote: >> >> >> >>>>--- Karl Schmidt <karltxtonics.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have found that the Lincoln rods of late aren't >>>>>the same as they used >>>>>to be. I've had much better luck with ESAB The >>>>>Lincoln rods have a H4 >>>>>on them - fresh out of the can and right into an >>>>>oven. Very hard to use >>>>>at lower amps - and too much heat with more amps. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that is just the rods as I've seen >>>>>using a Invertec205-T >>>>>to do this stick welding. >>>>> >>>>>Could it be the V205-T? Miller claims on their >> >>new >> >>>>>dynasty 200DXDXhat is >>>>>is a better stick welder than the V205-T. >>>>> >>>>>Has anyone used both with 7018 rod? >>>>> >>>>>Can anyone give me a comparison: Dynasty 200DXs >>>>>Invertec205-T on >>>>>7018 rods (5/32). >>>> >>>>Karl, >>>>I found in the V205-T owner's manual that on page >> >>14 >> >>>>they list the useable stick electrodes: >> >>Fleetweld35 >> >>>>(6011),fleetweld37 (6013), fleetweld180 (6011), >> >>and >> >>>>low hydrogen Jet-LH78MR. Now the unit does have >>>>default settings of 30% for the arc force and 80% >>>>for >>>>the hot-start features. Basically, hot-start is an >>>>additional boost of amperage (set as a percentage >> >>of >> >>>>the base setting) that is only for 10-100msec and >>>>aids >> >>Yes, I've played with that a bit - The Miller unit >>is not adjustable >>according to the Miller guy I talked to today. I'm >>not sure it needs to >>be either? I searched the owners manual for hot >>start and HS, and found >>nothing. >> > > The miller has an automatic hot-start, that is not > adjustable, but they have a DIG feature (same as arc > force) that is adjustable from 0-100% of the base > amperarge. > > > >>>>in the start. After that, if the rod is still >>>>sticking, then the arc force control comes into >>>>play. >> >>I haven't played with this one yet. I sort of >>figgured it would be close >>enough - The other welders I've worked with had no >>such adjustment, but >>everything seemed to just work. (Older bigger >>Lincoln units.) > > > The old transformers, both single phase or 3 phase, > usually had much higher OCV than 54volts. They also > were designed to quickly clear the short if the rod > stuck ( by having some amount of slope). There really > was no need for them to have the hot start features > that we find today on the inverter machines. The > inverters of today really appear to be almost ideal CC > machines in that as the arc voltage decreases, the > amperage stays constant. In the design of inverters it > becomes costly to maintain a design with high OCV.
Yes, they can get very close to pure CC (my background is electrical engineering and I designed a couple of switching power supplies back when one could afford to build them in the USA.) The question I have about the inverters is that they have all they need to be BOTH CC and CV by just changing the software a bit. The old transformer types really would have set E/I (or V/C as you would know it) curves that would not be fiddled with much.
Now with an Inverter power source there is no technical reason it couldn't do a good job as a Tig, Stick, MIG, Plasma torch (and on weekends you could use it as a Power amp for a PA system<g> (a joke but they do make switching power amps now)).
One of the things that has my curiosity is that the Miller Dynasty can work up to a much higher frequency than the V205-T. I'm guessing it can because it is probably a more conservative design.
I looked inside the V205T and it really isn't what I would call a great design. There are at least 10 circuit boards and I could see where they had added little boards because they had originally designed it with smaller wattage resistors and put in a board to use bigger ones. The front panel had two layers of board and used older bigger parts. Fixing this beast is not going to be easy as they layout of all the boards is a mess. There is a ground quick connect on the welders lid that is spot welded on - and was broken off on my unit.
A high power Inverter is not a simple design because of the problems of magnetic and RF noise that it generates and gets back into the control circuitry, but there are better and cleaner ways to do shielding than they did.
> > >>>>It too increases the amperage, but this time it >>>>increases it linearly as the arc voltage >> >>decreases. >> >>>>The closer you are to shorting the rod to the >> >>metal, >> >>>>the larger the increase of amperage. I would try >>>>increasing the arc force from 30 to 70% and see if >>>>that helps. I'm a little bit befuddled over the >> >>LH78 >> >>>>recommendation. I think if you were to try the >>>>Lincoln >>>>7018AC you would have better luck. >> >>Hmm? I had read that the AC is not prefered for >>other than use with buzz >>boxes so I havn't worked with it. I did see >>something about low voltage >>rods, but it wasn't associated with AC? > > > I found the info. about the lincoln 7018AC from their > stick electrode product catalog. The downside of the > AC version is that they may not have the higher charpy > v-notch rating that a regular 7018 would have. If this > is not for critical work, then it would probably be > o.k.
Interesting. I wonder what is the real difference in the rod. I have found that I could work at much lower currents with the ESAB 7018.
> Lincoln and others also make a 6013 for low OCV > (fleetweld 37) and I think a 6011 for low OCV > (fleetweld 180). I've not used these though. Go to > their website and search for 'literature'. It will > take you to a whole list of pdf documents that you can > look at on-line. > > >>>>This rod is >>>>designed for ac/dc operation with power supplies >>>>having low open-circuit voltage ( yours has 54V >>>>max--which is quite low). >> >>Yes, it seems low to me too, but the Dynasty goes up >>to 90Volts >>according to the graphs, BUT they have a deal called >>the OCV(Open >>circuit Voltage) that limits it to 13V?? Not sure >>how both can be true >>at once? >> > > > If the machine is in stick mode and you were to grab > the tip of the stick, it would be at 13volts for > safety's sake. Once you bring the tip in contack with > the work, and it makes a circuit, then the voltage > rises high, and then back down to the arc voltage. > So this could be a good deal - have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks a bunch for all you input.
> >>>>The rod also has cold >>>>restrike capabilities. The dynasty for its part >> >>also >> >>>>has arc force and hot-start capabilities, and they >>>>advertise the unit as fully 6010 and 7018 code >>>>quality >>>>capable. It is interesting that in the V205-t >> >>manual >> >>>>they don't list any type of 6010 rod to use. This >>>>machine is pretty much identical to the Selco >>>>Genesis--so that's not a great stick machine >> >>either. >> >>"Not a great stick machine" is what I'm starting to >>think too, and I >>really need it to do both - I'm thinking I might >>just get the Miller and >>sell the other "IF" The Dynasty 200dx is better at >>stick ( I haven't had >> call to try out the tig yet.) >> >>Tommorrow I'm going to play with the arc force a >>bit, and if I don't get >>anywhere I will just order a 200DX. Can you >>compare the Dynasty DX >>with the Lincon 175 Tig pro for TIG work? >> > > I've not run the Lincoln 175 tig pro, but I would say > that the comparison is between a traditional > transformer tig machine and a tig inverter. I would > choose the inverter hand's down if the extra cost is > not a problem. > It will give you much more control on the AC side, and > I think you'll find that even the DC side is smoother. > > > >>There is supposed to be a LX version, but I don't >>think it is out yet? > > > Haven't heard anything about a 200 LX version. The LX > designation provided additional signals at a connector > for use in automated settings. It is a big expense on > the maxstar 300 LX or dynasty 300 LX, so I'm not sure > the reason to have it for manual arc welding. > > I'd find a miller dealer with a dynasty 200 and check > it out yourself, that way you will know for sure if > it can do what you want it to. > > > -dseman > > >>This is kind of frustrating as it has been a while >>from when I did >>overhead 7018 before - I need reading glasses now >>and get frustrated >>with getting close enough (but not too close) and >>with things not >>working right I'm dropping hot metal now and then. >>(I really would like >>to find a leather cap with ear flaps). >> >> >>>>The esab 161 is also known for it's low OCV and >> >>poor >> >>>>stick capability with ordinary 6010 and 7018. >> >>Hope >> >>>>the low OCV 7018AC stick helps you out! I've >> >>tigged >> >>>>with the dynasty 200 but not any stick . The arc >>>>force >>>>and hot-start features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
features are adjusted through the >>>>setup >>>>panel p.19 of the lincoln manual. >>>> >>>>-dseman >>>> >> >>
-- -------------------------------------------------- Karl Schmidt EMail snipped-for-privacy@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph(785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX(785) 841-0434
Definition of Windows XP: SPAM, thinly disguised as an operating system --------------------------------------------------
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