Sig and Bud Nosen Citabrias - reviews, opinions, and advice sought

To all: I am looking at buying either a NOS Sig Citabria kit or a Bu
Nosen Citabria; I'm not sure what vintage either kit is.
Has anyone built or flown either of these airplanes, other than nast
handling on the ground, how well do they fly?
One review of the Sig kit stated that this particular design feature
somewhat archaic construction techniques, but since I have built man
small wood-and-fabric models, I'm used to carving nose blocks, an
otherwise dealing with old-fashioned construction methods. I als
understand that the Sig kit has undergone several iterations since i
first came out. I don't know how old this kit is, exactly, so how muc
difference is there between an early and later production kit?
I read the review of the Bud Nosen Citabria, and appreciate the info.
In either case, I was planning on using either an old Enya .45 or a K&
Sportster .45 for power.
I have not flown an RC model in some time, however I was somewha
proficient at flying when I was a kid. I've gotten a lot better a
building since then, turning out the little guys.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance
--
Prawni
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Prawnik
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I have built the 40 sized and the 1/4 scale Nosen Citabria but I have not done the Sig kit. The Nosen was a PITA to build as it really is a flying lumber yard. In the air it was a fun plane, getting it there was.. interesting. Both sizes had a great tendency to be airborne well before there was any aileron control authority, so you were dependant on the left stick early on. In cross winds, that could be real nasty because the natural tendency is to get airborne fast and climb out. Doing that and trying to correct tilts got exciting some times, but as I said it was a fun plane.
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
I have the Sig, circa 1974..
Snapping fool....
Can be tamed...
2 Deg wash out on the wing panels, make sure the balance point is at fwd limit, limit rudder movement to 20 deg each way. Rig at least 60/40 (prefer 70/30) differential in the ailerons, set neutral with the trailing edges 1/8 in up...
It likes wheel landings in any air above dead calm. and requires taildragger time with a REALLY educated left thumb..
Lead rudder into banks, lead rudder recovering from banks...
The spring aluminum landing gear will bounce you back into the air if you are sloppy on the toughdown.
Use toe-in on the main wheels...
BTW, - the full size Citabria handles much the same... :)
It's a blast to fly, but needs consentration getting it off and on the runway...
YMMV :)
Dave
.>
Reply to
Dave
6'O'Clock:
Thanks for the heads-up. When you say something is a "flying lumber yeard" what exactly do you mean? That it is all balsa construction, no foam or 'glass, or that the balsa comes mostly unshaped; you have to trace out and build all the parts yourself?
Thanks in advance, Kevin
Six_O'Clock_High Wrote:
Reply to
Prawnik
It is a built up kit of the old style. Wood wheel pants (1 guess that was the 1/4 scale bird) and a wood cowl. It has lots and lots of 1/4x1/4 behind the CG, so be warned.
Dave posted some stuff about the SIG kit which is similar to the Nosen in air - ground handling issues. His suggested wing twist is a must. In addition to his tricks, I have been known to build a hard stall strip on the inner 3 inches of the wing.
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
I've built several of the Nosen's over the years...even some modified into Citabria Pros. Had them powered with as little as a K&B .61 up to a Saito 270T including a home made Homelite 1.6. A 120 seemed about right....270T was awsome. They are fine flyers as a scale cabin type of plane, will do the prettiest slip of any plane I have ever flown, and all the aerobatics needed for the IMAC basic. As for the low speed aileron authority, just like the full scale version, you need to coordinate the rudder because of adverse yaw caused by those big barn door ailerons way out on the end of the wings. Aileron differential and aileron to rudder mixing fixes that. I had less than a 100' runway at my house and they landed easily there. I'll admit that the kit is a job to build but ain't that part of the fun? You can get a fiberglass cowl and wheel pants from several fiberglass houses. Cover it with 21st Centruy fabric. The biggest problem is that after A&A took over the manufacture of the kit, the die cutting went to pot, so you have to look at the particular kit you are buying...it might not be worth the effort. Build it and you'll love it!
Phil AMA609
Reply to
pcoopy
Well duh. . . I never knew any one EXCEPT A&A built the Nosen kits! My 1/4 scale became a Decathalon (semi symetrical wing and all) powered by a Q50 with the factory paint job. It flew as well as the Citribia. I enjoyed it until some idiot shot me down at the 1996 IMAA ROG.
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
It might handle similarly, but the full-size has no wing washout (making stall/spin behavior worse), has less aileron differential and no reflex (requiring more rudder) and has no toe-in on the mains. Nor does it care for wheel landings unless the crosswind is really strong (loves to bounce). Spins are better with the CG near the middle of the range. I wonder if much of the similarity in the model comes from the adjustments you've described. I suspect there are other differences, like the airfoil, or maybe longitudinal moment of inertia, or plain ailerons instead of the full-size's Friese ailerons. Things like that in a model can require fixes to make it more manageable.
Dan
Reply to
Dan Thomas
Thank you for the responses so far. This is some really usefu
information, especially for avoiding unwanted snap rolls.
For the aileron settings, you recommend 1/8" deflection upwards, right And, for avoidance of doubt, 70/30 means that the ailerons should hav more travel upwards than down?
Also, does anyone have an address for a glass cowl for the Sig? I'v seen a supplier for the Nosen Citabria.
Finally, if I buy the Nosen, it will be the .40 size. It will b enough of a chore getting the thing in my car as it is. Will an ol Enya .45 give either of these planes enough ummph
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Prawnik
By the way , ya'll, is the 1/4 scale Nosen Citabria basically a blown-u
.40 size Citabria? I ask because I've gotten a good look at a uncovered 1/4 scale NosenAbria here
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and believe me I am studying the construction closely.
Am I correct in assuming that all the ribs, formers, etc will b die-cut? I can do this myself, but I'd prefer to avoid it if I can
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Prawnik
modified
flown,
Well duh.....that's probably 'cause you were still swimmin' around somewhere in the family jewels when I built my first Nosen kit. LOL.
My
featured
Reply to
pcoopy
I have built , modified , and flown the 1/4 scale Citabria "Nosen_A&A,....." kit a few times. Terrible quality wood and die smashing at the time. The prints faded but they were nice and scale looking. The only way I could make it fly interstingly was to clip the wings and put strip ailerons on it. Then it behaved. Worst adverse yaw I ever say , before that. I tried a .61, loagy, a .90 was much better. I still have one with a ST 2000 on it. It floats around , and float. I also hve had it on floats.
Prawnik wrote:
Reply to
jim breeyear
Try some stall strips to fix the problems seen on T.O. About 10% the length of the wing on each side of the cabin seems to work well.
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High

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