3M double-sided tape

I've used tape before to hold stock to a fixturing plate, so I know this method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technical specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base holding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometimes half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M sells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we breathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the products we buy.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes
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method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technic= al specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base h= olding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, = Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this = with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometime= s half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M s= ells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for = aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S A= LL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we b= reathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the pro= ducts we buy.

I don't believe it- you're dreaming

Reply to
raamman

On Jan 8, 10:02 pm, "Janes" wrote: > I've used tape before to hold stock to a fixturing plate, so I know this method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technical specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base holding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometimes half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M sells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we breathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the products we buy. >

I don't believe it- you're dreaming

Hey, maybe. I'm probably dreaming that I worked for years as a model maker at Motorola, too. That model shop SEEMED pretty real!!

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

David, worked as a Model Maker for years at a competitor of Motorola. Any way I used a 2" wide double sided tape from 3M. looked at the roll but there is no part number on it. Used it when making aluminum flat pattens for sheet metal parts. Dam stuff stuck so good you couldn't get the parts off the table if you used too much.

Reply to
Joe Smith

method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technic= al specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base h= olding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, = Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this = with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometime= s half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M s= ells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for = aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S A= LL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we b= reathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the pro= ducts we buy.

Can you call 3M ? They should be able to get your number, pretty quick!

Reply to
Half-nutz

I don't use the 3M stuff. I use Permacel P-02. Works fine under coolant if the immersion times aren't too long, but you also need to check with your coolant and your concentration - some have more "solvent" power than others. Also need sufficient area to tape down (small parts can fly). Large areas can be very difficult to remove if completely coated with tape. Alcohol generally loosens the tape's grip.

P-02 can be had at KR anderson and a number of other places.

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--moi

Reply to
moi
442KW 6312 - 0085 OPR#042 - that's the number on a couple of rolls of 3M double-sided tape bought from McMaster-Carr.

I don't believe it- you're dreaming

Reply to
Mike Henry

On Jan 8, 9:02 pm, "Janes" wrote: > I've used tape before to hold stock to a fixturing plate, so I know this method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the technical specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum plate base holding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, Delrin, REN, Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I did all this with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full coverage, sometimes half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds of such tapes 3M sells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's involved, esp for aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. ENGINEERING! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we lie on, the air we breathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the house we live in, the products we buy. >

Can you call 3M ? They should be able to get your number, pretty quick! I'm going that route, as well. Finally got past the sales order people, got to "technical support", presented my case and got some suggestions. They're sending some samples. Which means I really won't know anything until I set up some tests, blah, blah, blah. And one of the PMs asks me, once again, what's the hold up and I have to explain that I'm learning NC g-code programming and I'm calibrating a replacement stylus for the one I busted on the new Renishaw OMP-2 probe and I'm testing tape and his eyes are glazing over while he's mumbling something about finding an outside vendor... Well, I'll continue down that route, but only because I don't know the part number of the tape I should be using.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

Well, I guess Motorola's tribulations gave you a good laugh. BTW, the Motorola Cellular model shop in Libertyville & Harvard IL were both closed. Everything's being outsourced. And, yes, we used 1" and 2" wide tape, fullest coverage for smallest parts, least for plates with a large surface area, often three 1 inch strips at most. And, yes, contrary to the beliefs of some sceptics, it was often difficult to remove parts. When they didn't pry off with a putty knife, we stuck stuff in a parts washer for several hours to loosen the bond.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

On Jan 8, 10:02 pm, "Janes" wrote: > I've used tape before to hold stock to a fixturing plate, so I know this > method works for holding raw stock. What I don't know is any of the > technical specs. These were based on holding plate to plate, aluminum > plate base holding a variety of materials, mostly aluminum, but also ABS, > Delrin, REN, Polycarbonate, and the like, no steel, so no exotic alloys. I > did all this with strips of 1" wide double sided tape, sometimes full > coverage, sometimes half. What I have no idea of is which, of the hundreds > of such tapes 3M sells, would be adequate for my purposes. Also, coolant's > involved, esp for aluminum. Anyone use such a tape? I'm on a number hunt. > ENGINEERING! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. It's our daily bread, the bed we > lie on, the air we breathe, the car we drive in, the food we eat, the > house we live in, the products we buy.

I don't use the 3M stuff. I use Permacel P-02. Works fine under coolant if the immersion times aren't too long, but you also need to check with your coolant and your concentration - some have more "solvent" power than others. Also need sufficient area to tape down (small parts can fly). Large areas can be very difficult to remove if completely coated with tape. Alcohol generally loosens the tape's grip.

P-02 can be had at KR anderson and a number of other places.

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Reply to
Janes
442KW 6312 - 0085 OPR#042 - that's the number on a couple of rolls of 3M double-sided tape bought from McMaster-Carr.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

David Janes, the Pro/E guru. Fancy seeing you here at AMC.

I've started using something called Mitee-Grip, which is a heat activated adhesive film. You heat your part when you're done to pull it off. I've even used it in limited production of parts with low surface area without too much problem.

I also like super glue. It is strong and stiff, but when you get under it with a chisel if pops off clean. I use a piece of high density REN (5169) that is bolted to the table and given a skim cut. The glue usually sticks to it better than the metal or plastic part, so the part usually pops off clean. Then I just face it again for the next part. I've milled everything from PVC to stainless steel this way.

I'm no eggspurt, just my .02...

Reply to
Polymer Man

I got something like that from McMaster-Carr. I didn't try it but my co-worker didn't like it for some reason. We usually heat an aluminum plate and apply hot-melt glue stick to it then weigh down the part until cool. RR

Reply to
Randy Replogle

David Janes, the Pro/E guru. Fancy seeing you here at AMC.

I got stuck with setting up a model shop, otherwise you probably wouldn't see me around AMC. I was there a while ago asking about a post processor for a Bridgeport XV-710 with a Fanuc 0i-MC controller (with less success).

I've started using something called Mitee-Grip, which is a heat activated adhesive film. You heat your part when you're done to pull it off. I've even used it in limited production of parts with low surface area without too much problem.

I heard of this stuff a long time ago, never tried it so thanks for the reminder.

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says heat on an electric hot plate or griddle. How do you heat yours? The safety committee would probably be less concerned with a heat gun than a hot plate.

I also like super glue. It is strong and stiff, but when you get under it with a chisel if pops off clean. I use a piece of high density REN (5169) that is bolted to the table and given a skim cut. The glue usually sticks to it better than the metal or plastic part, so the part usually pops off clean. Then I just face it again for the next part. I've milled everything from PVC to stainless steel this way.

Gluing to REN sounds like a good idea. When I tried it a couple months ago, I glued an aluminum block to an aluminum plate. It was a bitch to get off and left most of the glue on the part. The piece I made was a "brick", but for thin bottomed parts, I anticipated bending problems. Maybe the REN base plate would take care of that. I just got the REN for exactly that purpose so I'll have to test a variety of adhesion methods.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

snipped-for-privacy@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com...

see me around AMC. I was there a while ago asking about a post processor f= or a Bridgeport XV-710 with a Fanuc 0i-MC controller (with less success).

eminder.http://www.miteebite.com/products/mitee_grip_e.html> This says heat on an electric hot plate or griddle. How do you heat yours= ? The safety committee would probably be less concerned with a heat gun tha= n a hot plate.

o, I glued an aluminum block to an aluminum plate. It was a bitch to get of= f and left most of the glue on the part. The piece I made was a "brick", bu= t for thin bottomed parts, I anticipated bending problems. Maybe the REN ba= se plate would take care of that. I just got the REN for exactly that purpo= se so I'll have to test a variety of adhesion methods.

sorry, but I can't imagine how you would negotiate all the problems machining with tape to hold your part;

Reply to
raamman

sorry, but I can't imagine how you would negotiate all the problems machining with tape to hold your part;

What problems would those be? Have you ever tried it? Maybe you need to stretch your imagination a bit...

Certainly it's not for production runs of a lot of parts, the time involved in taping and untaping would be too long. But for prototypes or short runs of certain kinds of parts, it can be the only reasonable alternative to long fixturing times.

I have machined all kinds of parts with tape over the years, aluminum, plastics, wood... I agree a good baseplate is important, I used solid acrylic bases for machining aluminum and acrylic parts, REN for most other things. It's important that you squeeze down the parts to get max adhesion, I have some t-slot clamps that work well. Another thing to do (if you can) is to drill holes and put pins in the base that absorb the side force on the part while machining. The tape then just has to resist the vertical pull-up forces. When you're done, blow off the extra liquid and then douse the part with alcohol. Wait a few minutes and start prying it up with a short bladed putty knife...

--moi

Reply to
moi

I got something like that from McMaster-Carr. I didn't try it but my co-worker didn't like it for some reason. We usually heat an aluminum plate and apply hot-melt glue stick to it then weigh down the part until cool. RR

Interesting, sounds like a Home Depot solution. Do you get the part off the same way, with heat?

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

com... > David Janes, the Pro/E guru. Fancy seeing you here at AMC. >

sorry, but I can't imagine how you would negotiate all the problems machining with tape to hold your part; This is about numbers and investigation. And, yes, there are drawbacks, limitations, complications & accomodations. But, first off, lets deal with the most common misconception regarding workholding with tape~it couldn't possibly be strong enough. Again, let me emphasize, it's about the numbers, and these numbers come down to material removal forces vs holding power. Large cutters, deep cuts, heavy chip loads require maximum holding power; small cutters with shallow depth of cut and low chip load could be hand held (done all the time in sanding, grinding, buffing and polishing).

So, lets get some numbers on the table. Let's say, you're holding down a 12 inch square part with three one inch strips of tape. And, let's say the tape has a pull off strength of 30 psi which is 30x36=1080 lbs. Now, you are looking for a cutter which, if slammed against the side of this plate (not rotating/cutting), would dislodge the plate before breaking. What diameter cutter would that be? Carbide? HSS? Your choice. Then double it for your roughing cutter, running at a reasonable cutting rate and you'll never have a problem of unanticipated part separation. The only time I've ever had bad results is when trying to cut tall, skinny parts, patterned on a large plate when I cut through to the tape. Generally, if I'd set tools to the tape and stayed .002 above, I had no problem. And, recognizing the holding limitations on tall, skinny parts, you make accommodations, you reduce cutting forces by lessening cutter size, depth of cut and chip load.

David Janes

Reply to
Janes

Oh yeah man. Tape is great compared to just using a vacuum. And we machined hundreds of thousands of pounds of plastic last year using nothing but vacuum to hold it down. No edge pins or anything. And that's *feeding* at 1,800 IPM... Its all about the surface area, the height of the part, and avoiding cuts that lift the part.

Reply to
Polymer Man

see me around AMC. I was there a while ago asking about a post processor f= or a Bridgeport XV-710 with a Fanuc 0i-MC controller (with less success).

snip

see me around AMC. I was there a while ago asking about a post processor f= or a Bridgeport XV-710 with a Fanuc 0i-MC controller (with less success). "

Setting up a model shop, hell, I wish I was saddled with such a "bummer" project. I've never used an Oi-MC, but I've had good luck with an O-M C just using a default Pro/E post, #12 I think...

This says heat on an electric hot plate or griddle. How do you heat yours? The safety committee would probably be less concerned with a heat gun than a hot plate."

I clean both parts, roll out some of the sheet and sandwich it between my material and the REN, I then heat the material with a propane torch (moving quickly) until the adhesive melts (under 200F) then I set a weight on it until it cools. Your safety committee probably wouldn't like that too much...

The ability to remove something thin without bending it is nice. Down sides are the goop is too thick for extremely tight thickness control in Z, the bond strength isn't that high, and it can leave a residue that needs to be removed (don't try to remove it in a tumbler, mucks up the media).

and left most of the glue on the part"

When using an aluminum sacrificial table surface I clean the part with a coolant damp towel, and I clean the fixture with acetone. The glue stays on the fixture, the part usually stays clean. When using REN, I skim it dry and blow it off with air. Again, the glue favors the fresh REN.

Reply to
Polymer Man

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