Electric cars are certainly not the end-all be-all solution to our
problems, although they do offer advantages. A large stationary
generator operating steady at near full capacity is much more efficient
than a bunch of individual car engines, even if the generator is burning
fossil fuel. It also centralizes emissions in one place rather than
spewing nasty stuff into the stagnant air in city streets.
If the cost came down, I wouldn't mind having an electric commuter car.
I wouldn't get rid of my gasoline car, but for the 16 miles a day I
commute, something that could go 40 miles on an overnight charge would
let me go to work and back and have enough range to go get some lunch.
You have a choice. In his hypothetical case of several homes sharing
a transformer, you can either design for worst case or ignore it. The
latter could very well result in the transformer overloading and the
homes being without power. And his point is a very valid one. The
existing transformer loads were calculated based on some assumptions
of what loads would be in the future and a worst case scenario had to
be calculated. I would not be surprised that suddenly having homes
where new 70A loads for 4 hours appear could exceed the system design,
with his transformer loading being a good example.
As for using a longer term lower current, there are two big problems
1 - The longer it takes to recharge the car, the less attractive these
cars become and they become totally excluded from many applications.
That's especially true when you compare their operating costs with
similar size ICE cars available today, eg hybrids, that have no
2 - In today's instant gratification world, I doubt many people are
going to want to charge it at less than the maximum. You need to run
a new circuit to charge them anyway, so why would you not make it
capable of charging at the max? And once you have that 90A circuit,
you know people are going to use it. You could discourage this by
offpeak pricing. But that gets back to what I said a long time ago,
which is that you need to talk about a COMPLETE solution, from energy
generation to the point of usage, not just an electric car. Yet, the
miracle, clean, green electric car is all the media cares to talk
You're the first residential user that I ever heard of that notified
the power company because they were installing a hot tub. In the
rest of the residential world, no one is keeping track of what loads
get added. You put in a 200amp service and that's the end of the
story. If you need more capacity, THEN you call the electric company
and upgrade to 300amps.
It puts me in awe of the power of gasoline when you consider that the
equivalent POWER flow through an ordinary filling station hose at the
gas station when you fill up your car is measured in MEGAWATTS!!!
Right now it's not an even comparison. But I think you'll all agree
we're closer to the end of reasonably priced gas than we are from the
beginning. No matter how much you think is left it's definitely a
finite resource. On the other hand there are all sorts of potential
new sources of electricity. Many that are of limited practicality
right now have potential to become more practical either because of
technology improvements or just volume increase. Most are "green" and
do not add to the carbon dioxide load. Like it or not the days of
gasoline powered transportation are numbered.
The SUN is a finite resource!
"HOUSTON - ExxonMobil Corp. added two billion barrels of oil equivalent to
its proved oil and gas reserves in 2009, or 133 per cent of its production
for that year, the largest U.S. oil company said Tuesday..."
That is, Exxon FOUND a third more oil than they recovered.
I agree. If you had asked the average New Yorker in 1910 what would
transportation be like in a hundred years, with a population increase of
five-fold, he'd have probably wondered a) Where would we get enough horses,
and b) What would we do with all the horse shit.
I'm personally rooting for teleportation.
You get permit for electrical work from the local municipality. They
usually charge a fee and send out an inspector to make sure the work
is done according to code. What does any of that have to do with
your claim that the power company routinely gets notified when you add
a large residential load like a hot tub? Please provide a cite for
that. I'd also welcome hearing from anyone else here that notified
the power company that they were adding a hot tub or similar load.
You notify the power company when you need an upgrade in the service
capacity to the house.
Complete nonsense. As long as your usage is within your service
capabilities you have no obligation to inform anyone of added loads.
In some jurisdictions you're required to (though few do) pull a permit
for electrical work, though in reality this is for *tax* purposes.
The power company doesn't know anything about it. You assume
government is looking out for something other than themselves.
Well, there's the confusion right there. Many utilities are in the
sector. For example, my "city" is Pittsfield Township. My electric
DTE Energy, a publicly traded corporation.
On 2/17/2010 1:00 PM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:
You've never heard of municipal power companies? Lessee, not far from
where I live, Palo Alto, Sacramento, and several others I can't think of
just at the moment run their own power systems within their cities.
Marin County just decided to set up a county-wide power authority. So
yes, in many places "the power utility is the city".
Now who's laughing?
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
Yeah, but that's California where the word for government ownership of the
means of production is "normal."
Now my city owns the water system - and makes a small profit. The real
reason for city ownership, I've been told, is so the city can keep up with
buildings and so forth for tax purposes.
Several cities in that greatest of red states, Texas, own their electric
utilities, including the capital, Austin (a blue island in a sea of red). Also,
Garland, near Dallas, as red as you can get.
OK, when did red shift from liberal pinko commie red to god fearing conservative
When one of the TV networks news department painted a large US map on
the floor of their studio and chose red and blue for the two major
political parties for a presidential election. We know how liberal most
of MSM is.
I think it comes from the usual reaction of progressives when they don't get
their way: the hold their breath until they turn blue (sometimes accompanied
Conversely, conservatives maintain a healthy pink constitution. Sometimes
aided by home-made alcohol.
Doesn't say they aren't the same in some places, but it does say it
isn't true everywhere. Two cities near me by bulk electric, then rip
off residents and business by doubling the cost to everyone else in the
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