ground wire question

PCs are a lot more hardy than you would think. They convert the AC to DC and back to AC so most line noise is lost in the translation. The "line filter" is there to keep the trash from the PC supply, out of your TV and radio. That said, if your lights aren't flickering, and your TV flashing snow, your power is probably OK.

Hi Greg Now that you mention it, the lights have flickered every once in a while. Could, no ground wire be the reason for that ? Thanks again DJ

probably not. pc power supplies are pretty much immune to commonly seen power disturbances and poor grounding is unlikely to have much effect anyway. it might make things less safe but probably won't effect the functionality any.

| Could someone tell me if, not having any ground wiring in your home could | cause computer problems? My PC would just shut down for no apparent reason. | I was told it could be the power source. I replaced that but it has shut | down on me twice since then.

Do you have a surge protector connected between the PC and the socket? Lack of ground would greatly reduce the ability of the surge protector to do it's job.

If your lights are flickering there is the probability of a loose connection in your wiring somewhere. It is also possible that there is a loose neutral connection somewhere and one side of the line is getting a higher voltage and the other side is getting a reduced voltage. This would be evident if some lights in the house get brighter for a moment while others get dimmer. This could cause a higher voltage to your computer for a moment if the computer is plugged into that circuit and may just overload the power supply for just long enough to make it crash.

You should get this fixed right away.

I have seen computers go unstable because the homeowner removed all safety ground wires in the breaker box. Once demonstrated to him, then he would blame me for his problems. Never did discover why that missing safety ground caused his intermittent failures. Normally missing safety ground should not because computers should be that robust.

But missing safety grounds can cause peripheral failure. This was a serious problem with HP LaserJet II printers. When some put mechanical switch boxes between printer and computer, then the switch box would disconnect ground. This caused LaserJet damage. A problem that would not have occurred if computer and peripheral both shared a common safety ground.

Lights flickering would be from something else such as wall receptacles connected using wires stabbed into receptacle rear rather than properly wrapped around screws or maybe a loose wire in breaker box. Flickering lights from a voltage drop more than 15 milliseconds long may cause a computer to reset.

The safety ground in a wall receptacle does nothing to make a surge protector effective. Many don't understand the different concepts of grounding. Surge protectors need earth ground - not safety ground. Missing earth ground is why a plug-in protector can even contribute to damage of an adjacent and powered off computer. To be effective, the protector must be connect to AC mains and less than 10 foot from earth ground

- not safety ground. Ineffective and grossly overpriced protector just forget to mention that part.

But surge protector has noth> Hi Greg

Indago Hi, this house is pretty old. The flickering lights don't happen all the time, that's what's so puzzling. Just occasionally. I've never seen them get brighter though just dimmer. Thanks, DJ

"w_tom" Strange, my PC is also a HP. I've been told the power supply that they use isn't the best. But like I said I replaced the power supply and it still shut down on me. The first HD ended up with bad sectors from all the outages that I had, so I bought a new HD and whenever it shut down on me also. I reinstalled the old HD just until I get the problem figured out. Surely don't want the new hard drive ending up like that. I do have a Decor-Surge 3 stage made by Snapit. It enables me to have 6 plugs instead of just the normal 2. Do you think this could be the problem? We live in Louisiana and do have severe weather that causes frequent electrical problems also. Thanks, DJ

| Phil | I mentioned in the earlier email to "w_tom"that I do have a Decor-Surge,3 | Stage made by Snapit. It enables me to have 6 plugs instead of just the | normal 2. Have you heard of any problems with this type of surge protector.

I don't know about that particular type. But the general design of surge protectors depends on the grounding wire being present and properly wired. If the grounding wire is not there, don't expect any protection. In some cases it could be worse having the surge protector without the ground than not having it at all.

First if supply was in a brand name computer, then it was typically superior to what is found in most clone built machines. If you replaced the supply with something typically sold for less than $60 retail, then you probably installed an inferior supply. Furthermore, if someone recommended replacing a power supply without first taking numerical measurements, then suspect the worst. On this I must be blunt because so many computer repairs are recommended by junk scientists - people who cannot be bothered to first learn the meaning and power of numbers. A power supply need not be replaced when the numbers and manufacturer specifications say it was perfectly good.

Second, to further answer your questions, basic information must be provided. For example, what is the operating system and what is the disk filesystem? What peripherals are attached and how are those peripherals powered? Intel or AMD processor?

The Decor-Surge 3 stage protector would typically do same as every other plug-in power strip and UPS protector. It has no effect on your problem since it remains inert - does nothing - acts like it was not even connected unless a 300+ volt surge occurs. An event that occurs typically once every eight years. An event made obvious by other damaged electronics.

Its an HP. So download their comprehensive diagnostics for your hardware. What did diagnostics report? If using XP or any other NT based OS, then what is the important information in the system (event) log. What did Device manager report? Of course you have done the obvious - run a currently updated virus checker on the system.

And again, why is the AC circuit dimming out. Again, if loss of power is something more than 0.015 seconds, then the power supply must reset the computer. So why is that power flicking out periodically? This is sometimes directly traceable to bad household wiring, as described earlier, that is perfectly acceptable for electric lights and other simpler appliances. Describes previously is how to not wire a house (as too many electricians still do) because intelligent appliances now exist.

As for severe weather threat: concepts involve the essential earth ground with every incoming utility connected to that single point earth ground. A connection either via hardwire, or via a 'whole house' protector. The protector only effective; making a connection to earth ground during the rare extreme transient. Again, that plug-in protector does nothing for your current problem nor does it even claim to protect from surges typically created by severe storms. Plug-in protectors (that are also grossly overpriced) are recommended only by those who don't even understand what protectors do.

To solve your problem, first we must know why problem exists before even c> "w_tom"

Sounds like a loose connection at the mobo or a loose connection in the power supply cord.

"w_tom" Hi, can't say how much I appreciate your help. I have a HP Pavilion 531w, purchased July 2002, Windows XP Home Edition, NTFS. HP DeskJet 3820 printer, HP PS2 Keyboard (2K-3), PS/2 compatible mouse, Sony CD-Writer (internal). Intel Celeron CPU 1.30 GHz. (The Sony CD-Writer was a replacement for the original CD-writer.)

I have the Norton's Anti-virus program and I keep it up to date.

I'm not sure what the problem is, with the house lights flickering.But like I mentioned before, this is an old house (over 55 years), also, it was built out of 2 old houses at that time. Just hope they didn't use the same wiring from the original 2 houses.

I will see what kind of diagnostic tests I can find and run and please let me know if you need any further information. I will let you know what I find out with the tests, K?

Thanks so much, Donna J.

Decor-Surge,3

"Kilowatt" This is the 2nd power supply cord also and it still shut down on me. The loose connection for the MB you mentioned, you mean from the PS to the MB, right? I have checked all those connections. Checked the capacitors also and all look normal to me. Any other ideas? Thanks, DJ

Decor-Surge,3

That sure sounds more like you have something that is shorting out the supply.

Greg Hi, can you give me some ideas what to look for? Thanks, DJ