HV capacitors which emit x-rays?!!!

If plasma effects cause the capacitor to pump itself down, and if the (glass?) dielectric doesn't release too much gas under plasma bombardment, then the pressure within the capacitor might drop quite low.

Here's a 2005 paper where a small crude x-ray generator is made from a

2cm diameter PP plastic syringe pumped down to only 3e-2 Torr, with 2 to 3 KVDC applied. The photos show that it glows brightly. Apparently with close electrode spacing you can get significant x-ray output, even while the pressure is still high enough to give a bright visible discharge. But they did use a 150um Be window to let the soft x-rays get out. (Maybe even a neon sign produces x-rays, but they can't penetrate the glass?)

The paper shows a spectrum with a big peak around 2KeV or so, and a tail going up above 4KeV. I wonder if 2KeV x-rays would get through the metal foils and dielectric layers of a stacked-plate capacitor? If they do, then a large stack of layers would obviously contribute to x-ray intensity. But unless hydrogen ions would rapidly get ion-pumped deep into the metal foil layers, this whole plasma pump-down trick might not work with plastic or waxpaper dielectrics.

Simple X-ray Emitter, Murakami et. al.

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((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer beaty chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 billb eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066

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Reply to
Bill Beaty
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On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:02:07 -0600, "smuggie" Gave us:

Not true. Who ever fed you that crap?

ALL CRT type TVs emit *some* x-rays. It is from the electron beam striking the aperture grille (not lead either, btw). There are not now, nor have there ever been emissions from the sides of the tube, so no, there are NOT ANY 30 Lb lead linings in ANY CRTs.

Reply to
JoeBloe

WOW, take a look at this one:

Anomalous X-Ray Emission from Insulators 1968 Michitaka Terasawa

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Also: Strong X-Ray Emission from Electrified Insulators 2004 Inada

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Insulators of quartz or aluminum oxide bombarded by 20KeV protons are producing intense x-rays? Hey, maybe an "x-ray capacitor" wouldn't need much of a vacuum, just some hydrogen ions and some DC. Terasawa thinks the protons just provide an intense surface charge, then some repetitive discharges down within the insulator provides electrons to accelerate.

Here's another weird thing:

1cM x-ray generator runs off 9V battery
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Electrons spewed out by a chilled pyroelectric crystal are hitting copper foil and making 8KeV x-rays?!! Low pressure gas? Dang. Gotta make me wunna does tings.

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer beaty chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 billb eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066

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Reply to
Bill Beaty

On 28 Nov 2006 17:30:41 -0800, "Bill Beaty" Gave us:

That is cool!

I used to make a 9V in HVPS for an x-ray machine that was driven at

4kV. Our supply had less than 3mV of ripple at 4kV! That is like 0.000006% ripple!

Anyway, the customer said that the super clean HVDC drive is what makes for a super clean x-ray flux, and that makes for super crisp, high contrast ratio x-ray images.

I made the best X-ray supplies in the world. We even had LANL, LLNL, JPL and others buying our super clean, ultra pure HVDC supplies.

I think I want one of the cases they show on that x-ray transducer. It looks like it would hold my polonium sample just perfectly! ;-]

Reply to
JoeBloe

For the same energy, protons are much slower than electrons. Thus protons will have lower acceleration than electrons even though protons lay down higher energy density along their tracks compared to electrons. The lower acceleration leads to much less bremsstrahlung than using electrons. This is used to advantage at Loma Linda University to provide more intense and localized radiotherapy without generation and scattering x-rays produced by bremsstrahlung.

Electrons stopped by insulators and other materials will produce bremsstrahlung. The usual interactions of electrons and matter will take place (photoelectric effect and Compton scattering). The atomic number of the medium will be important on the details of of these losses.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

Reply to
Salmon Egg

Err... the faceplate of the typical color TV is LEADED GLASS, i.e. lead oxide dissolved in the silicate glass. It contains about 4 lb of lead, and it might have total weight of the glass equal 30 lb.

And the most important X-rays aren't from the aperture grille (which is typically chrome/nickel/iron) because those have mainly K line emission which is in the 4 keV range; not low enough for high number of photons, and not high enough to get through much shielding. The most important are from the phosphors (rare earth types) which have L edges at 8 keV or so, which is a tad more penetrating, as well as involving more candidate electrons per atom.

Simple plasma (St Elmo's fire) doesn't get to high enough temperature for significant X-ray output, though some laser plasma techniques can achieve this.

Reply to
whit3rd

There shouldn't be much radiation from the rectifiers. The current only flows in the forward direction and the voltage drop shouldn't be big enough for x-ray production.

The old sets used a shunt regulator for the high voltage. This definitely could be a problem.

Reply to
John Gilmer

On 29 Nov 2006 00:03:47 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Gave us:

No.... He said 30Lb of lead. That would be in addition to the glass weight.

Electrons striking metal is all that is needed. There are target materials that are better than others.

If a 25kV stream striking a palladium target gives off a flux, then a single static spark into the same target will give of an emission as well, it just may not be one we can easily detect or quantify. The same event occurs in both cases, it's just that in the case of the stream there are far more events.

Reply to
JoeBloe

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