Intermittent tripping breaker

The cable in the wall goes down behind kitchen cabinets. Nothing has been touched or changed on that wall in the 16 years we've lived in this house. There is no place you could hang a picture, even if you wanted to.

I should clarify that when I "swapped the two breakers" this last time, I did exactly what you suggest. I just swapped the hot wires on the breakers, and left the breakers right where they were.

And it ran all day today, until tonight. It tripped right after an electric heater switched off 2 floors away (yes, on a different circuit, and not even one that runs anywhere near where this troublesome one runs in the basement). Of course, we turned the heater back on and off a million times, but the breaker won't trip again.

Yep, I tightened every screw in the panel. All the neutral and ground ones in the ground block. All the hots on the breakers, and even gave a crank on the 2 main hots and the main ground (which is how I found the slightly loose main ground).

About the incandescent lamp... I wouldn't know. Since this circuit runs stuff in the cellar, I would have to camp out there for 8-10 hours at a time with a light on to see what it would actually look like when it trips.

This last time ran from about 2:00PM until 8:30 PM. 6.5 hours... which is pretty typical.

So... once and for all, it DEFINITELY ain't the breaker. I guess it could be a squirrel or mouse chew, or something stupid like that, in that wall. When they rewired the house, I don't know exactly what they did. But they did tear the entire kitchen apart, and most likely ripped out all the old plaster to put up the drywall that's there now, plus the cabinets, appliances, etc. This was all done in the 1970s sometime. Yes, this wire has been there that long, untouched.

It would take hours to snake a new wire down that wall and get it back to the panel, but I think it is possible. If they didn't staple it in the wall, I could even use the old wire to pull the new one through. But it it's stapled, I'll have to bore a new hole top and bottom and start fishing a snake through there --- joy --- been there, done that, don't really want to do it again.

--- Max

AutoTracer wrote:

Dang it ! Right ?

look if this doesn't work send for an exhorsits Okay.

Take the feed you describe off the panel & the 2 branch circuit wires at the junction box ( in short isolate the branch circuits from the feed from the circuit panel

Now: with a separate run of cable use (10 Awg for this), reconnect the branches to the panel. Since you have the time :-) wait for a trip as you've been doing. if it doesn't trip, attached the New Cable perminently with proper connectors and bushings to the Breaker Panel & Branch Circuit Junction box.

If the problem persists and you decide not to re-wire the primary feed to the of Branch Circuits " Dominus Padre Voltbiscum " };-)

Roy JPQT

addendum: sometimes if you push the breaker in release it with a snap & push On again it may re-set if a healthy voltage is present. [donethatalready?]

addendum II: what type of service conductors feed the house.

It sounds like you have done all the proper steps to try to diagnose this problem to avoid unnecessarily re-wiring.

The time has come. Bite the bullet and rewire from the panel to the first jbox on the branch. If it fixes the problem, you're done. If not, re-wire the rest, from the first j-box to the end of the branches, one "leg" at a time.

The problem sounds like a classic staple pinch.

Ed

A couple more thoughts: 1) As I remember the pushmatic, when a breaker opens, it needs a partial push to pop it all the way off, and then it can be pushed back on. I doubt this is your problem.

2) I really w> Standard 20A non GFI Bulldog Pushmatic.

Well, at the last update, I hooked up a pigtail light to the feed from the panel, so now there was nothing but a cable run from the panel to the basement, with this light connected. All branches were disconnected from it.

I had done this before, and nothing happened. I had pulled out the feed wire, and left no branches connected, and nothing happened.

But this time I decided, dammit, that light is going to hang there, and HANG there. And if that breaker doesn't trip, it is NOT the wire from the panel.

FINALLY, it tripped. It took about 16 hours. So once and for all, I knew the problem was the wire from the panel after all.

Now, I know this is going to disappoint all of you who have helped me, but... I didn't pull the wall apart to SEE what happened to the wire. ;-)

And as it happens, remember that other circuit 12 that runs through the basement? Well, since this problem circuit only has a few lights on it, I decided it flat-out wasn't worth putting in a new cable run. So, I disconnected the run from circuit 6, put in a junction box, and fed the basement branches off circuit 12.

This was an easy, relatively painless, way to get the problem solved. Thank you, everyone. I really do appreciate all the advice.

--- Max

max wrote:

did you ? finally !

but you better check & see you didn't create an overload condition when you added the branch circuits to whatever you did there.

Yeah, I don't think I'll have a problem there. The circuit I tapped into is a 20-amp for outlets in the kitchen. The branches I added on only support 2 ceiling porcelain light fixtures with a single bulb in each one. We're really talking almost nothing in the way of current ---

2-3 amps tops.

--- Max

Roy Q.T. wrote:

Cool'., then you're done. go kick off your boots an have a beer :-) =AEoy

From: (max) Yeah, I don't think I'll have a problem there. The circuit I tapped into is a 20-amp for outlets in the kitchen. The branches I added on only support 2 ceiling porcelain light fixtures with a single bulb in each one. We're really talking almost nothing in the way of current --- 2-3 amps tops.

--- Max Roy Q.T. wrote: did you ? finally ! but you better check & see you didn't create an overload condition when you added the branch circuits to whatever you did there.

050325 0154 - Roy Q.T. posted:

Yes, and while you are enjoying the brew, think about whether or not the wiring you transferred is 14 gauge tapped onto the 12 gauge on a 20 amp breaker.

From: snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net (indago)

050325 0154 - Roy Q.T. posted: Cool'., then you're done. go kick off your boots an have a beer :-) =AEoy From: (max) Yeah, I don't think I'll have a problem there. The circuit I tapped into is a 20-amp for outlets in the kitchen. The branches I added on only support 2 ceiling porcelain light fixtures with a single bulb in each one. We're really talking almost nothing in the way of current --- 2-3 amps tops.

--- Max Roy Q.T. wrote: did you ? finally ! but you better check & see you didn't create an overload condition when you added the branch circuits to whatever you did there. Yes, and while you are enjoying the brew, think about whether or not the wiring you transferred is 14 gauge tapped onto the 12 gauge on a 20 amp breaker.

Hahaha No rest for the wicked ! I think he said it was a standard 10awg from the panel.

And he probably doesn't care that it's a code violation. 210-52 (b) (2)

Ed

Re: Intermittent trip FOUND IT Group: alt.engineering.electrical Date: Sat, Mar 26, 2005, 12:26am (EST+5) From: snipped-for-privacy@bellatlantic.net indago wrote: From: (max) Yeah, I don't think I'll have a problem there. The circuit I tapped into is a 20-amp for outlets in the kitchen. The branches I added on only support 2 ceiling porcelain light fixtures with a single bulb in each one. We're really talking almost nothing in the way of current --- 2-3 amps tops.

--- Max Yes, and while you are enjoying the brew, think about whether or not the wiring you transferred is 14 gauge tapped onto the 12 gauge on a 20 amp breaker. And he probably doesn't care that it's a code violation. 210-52 (b) (2) Ed ~~~~~~~~~~ Probably so in a new construction with a free hand to do so. Codes are meant to make people safe and using electricity easier, i dont think the " no other outlets " rule 210-52(b)(2) applies to his resolution of the tripping problem, but, It better be at least a # 12 awg and if there are any #10 nothing less than a 10awg. Roy

Roy,

The applicable sections of the code must be followed for all electrical work. It does not matter what his reason is for extending the kitchen circuit as described in the thread - it is a code violation.

Ed

Did he extend the kitchen circuit, i thought he just changed the first length from the circuit breaker panel to the junction box.

where did you get the extension from ? =AEoy

From his post on 3/24. He said:: "Yeah, I don't think I'll have a problem there. The circuit I tapped into is a 20-amp for outlets in the kitchen. The branches I added on only support 2 ceiling porcelain light fixtures with a single bulb in each one."

Ed

And you get the added feature of knowing when the microwave tripped the breaker because the lights go out too. Real neat feature when you are warming up that 2AM snack. LOL. I used to live in a house and discovered the basement was wired like this the hard way.