$5,000 Retro Fit Hybrid Kit

Install one on your car and report back.

John

I'm in love with the idea.

It will be the most cost effective way to commute in a couple years yet you'll still be able to haul your boat over the mountains.

The flexibility of adding anyone's new batteries as they become commercially available is another advantage over conventional hybrids.

A big alternator and an electric ac compressor would be another plus. Maybe they could even tweak conventional [large rpm range] engines to run at an optimum speed when recharging.

You're sitting in traffic going nowhere. It's 115 F outside but the ac is on and the main engine isn't running, at least not for a long period of time.

Bret Cahill

I came up with a similar idea a few years ago.

It was too big a project for me alone and I had other priorities. There was also the problem of making an electric motor that had sufficient torque and speed for direct drive requirements, and I had planned to use a reduction chain drive, but that added some mechanical engineering challenges. But I found wheel hub motors available and in-use. And I found another website that described how to replace the alternator with a larger motor/generator which could be used to provide additional power from a battery bank and also be used for regenerative braking. But that was not very efficient because there was no easy way to unload the ICE to run on electric power alone.

I recently saw the movie "End of Suburbia"

which gives a lot of insight into how we in the US got into the situation we are now in, and the ramifications of "Peak Oil", which is where we are now or will be in a few years. Cheap energy fueled the flight to the suburbs and the inherently wasteful concept of long commutes and sprawling individual houses for small families and individuals. Auto makers and oil companies made more profits as such a lifestyle became more popular. But there is a finite amount of oil in the ground, and even though we are unlikely to "run out" suddenly like draining a gas tank, it will become increasingly costly to extract, and price will rise exponentially as demand continues to increase, until most people simply will not have the money to afford it.

The economy relies on increased growth which is untenable globally, so we will need to adapt to an economy based on sustainable moderation and reduction of spending. Our economy as presently configured is doomed because it depends on continued sales of items that are based on cheap energy, materials, transportation, and labor. Much of the economy is about trade in items that are not essential and based on rapid obsolescence to be discarded and replaced. But we may very well. in our lifetimes, see a point where it will become difficult for most people to afford the essential food, clothing, shelter, and heating that are now taken for granted. We are seeing the start of that with our present recession, and it's not going to be fixed by bailing out companies that based their profits on a fatally flawed concept of endless cheap resources. We can't spend our way out of this. The retail economy cannot be based on huge expenditures for "toys", including consumer electronics and sports cars and SUVs.

The movie can be viewed in its entirety on You-Tube:

Paul

It's still desirable to reduce the unsprung weight. You should have applied for a patent.

You-Tube:

Nissan is looking at roadbed electrification, probably induction, but even with that a lot of people are going to have to relocate to cities.

Bret Cahill

I wonder how he plans to have the controls (gas pedal, brakes, engine throttle, tranny, abs, engine control computer) interact with the new wheel motors. Regen braking will get interesting. Or what it might do the existing warranty and regulatory compliance certs.

Sounds like a huge bag-o-worms. Let's check back in a few years. Odds are it will be dead and gone, as 99.9% of such ideas are.

Hybrids mainly get good mileage not because they have good drive trains, but because they are ugly and aerodynamic. They do pay a big price in battery weight.

I wonder about the economics of having two gas engines, the main one and a much smaller one for accessories and low-speed cruising.

Batteries are terrible things.

John

>

Peak oil is always a few years ahead.

Cheap energy fueled the flight to the

Cheap oil changed a predominantly rural, farming society into a primarily urban one.

Auto makers and oil

Of course. In the process they made us far, far more efficient and prosperous and healthy than we had been.

But

They will buy less as the price increases. This will happen slowly, and people will adapt.

Food and clothing in the USA are incredibly cheap; go to a Wal-Mart and see. Houses are available in Detroit for $1.

John

=95=95 It is a stupid idea suitable only for men who have money to burn and time to waste.

=96=96=A0=A0=96=96 Political correctness is destroying Europe.

America will be the next down the PC tube greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb, Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill, and Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and now Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.

"What makes our approach different is we don't need to modify anything in existing vehicles to turn them into a hybrid," said Perry. "We install the motor in the space between the brake mechanism and the hub without any other modifications."

I wish the image had the resolution to be readable, but that system looks like it would push the wheels out (by going between the wheel and the brake) and disturb the suspension geometry that would require other changes.

The car would not drive well with all the battery weight and changed suspension geometry without numerous other changes. If there is something that hangs on the inboard side it might work by making FWD cars be RWD cars in electric mode, but it would interfere with drive shafts in the front on FWD cars and the rear axle or drive shafts on RWD cars. Front hubs or spindles on RWD cars won't accept something hanging inside the brake very well in most cases.

That's why he's selling it as a kit. It may not work as an aftermarket industry.

Some states may outlaw it.

It's not for everyone but it's certain he'll have a big market by the time it's ready.

To be sure a diesel Rabbit does about as well as a Prius at freeway speeds but the biggest advantage with plug in hybrids, more important than the ability to scoot through an intersection 2X faster than a diesel Rabbit, is being able to avoid gasoline altogether on most trips.

Unlike a Prius or Tesla, a retrofitted large engine vehicle will still be able to tow a trailer up a mountain.

Battery cost may be a bigger issue.

Supposedly some expensive cars already have. A large engine is only a thousand or so dollars so the cost of two engines will not be an issue compared to the fuel savings.

But they are steadily getting better.

Some materials prof at ASU claims he has a rechargheable zinc air battery, cheap materials yet 2X the energy of Li-ion.

Bret Cahill

n

And when the recession is over the price of fuel will soar to $10/ gallon and beyond.

Bret Cahill

And it will still be cheaper than a gallon of milk.

John

Or pint of coffee.

Fuel is already higher than milk.

Other commodities like copper and rare earth elements will go up as well but not as fast as fuel.

Bret Cahill

I couldn't find any patents or applications for Charles Perry. It was probably invented back in the '70s.

Several companies are coming out with them:

It might be better than spending 50K for a Volt.

If axles were hollow they could be mounted on the outside of the wheels.

Bret Cahill

This morning in San Francisco, a gallon or regular gas costs $3.20 and a gallon of whole milk is $3.99. A gallon of low-end drinking water can cost a lot more.

I'd guess that making the milk liberated more carbon-based gases than making and burning the gasoline.

I can drive 5 people from the Pacific Ocean

to the Nevada border

ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Exit201.jpg

on about $18 worth of gasoline, under $4 per person. If we stop for a modest lunch, that will cost about twice as much as the fuel.

I don't understand why you are down on something that works so well.

John

This is the Mechanics Illustrated phenomenon: every month all sorts of amazing inventions are announced, all of which will revolutionize our lives and be on the market next year. That's been going on for 60 years or so. And they missed most of the things that have in fact revolutionized our lives.

The systems you cite here don't appear to even have working prototypes in operation. And none appear to involve technology that wasn't available 10 years ago. Explain that.

John

The best lampoon was National Lampoon on MI:

"Convert your piano to diesel power."

Maybe the letter of recommendation from an admitted pimp / vandal to Harvard Law School was better.

"And since I was living under an assumed name . . ."

Or a century ago.

A lot of stuff gets patented before it's cost effective.

The price of fuel hadn't gone over $5/gallon back then.

Bret Cahill

Current US average at the pump is about $2.60.

John

The price of fuel should include the true costs of getting the raw material (crude oil) and also the cost of its effect on the environment when it is burned. So the war in the Middle East should most fairly be subsidized by fuel taxes. We are already subsidizing terrorist activities with the profits made by the Arabs and other countries who produce the oil, so why not also subsidize our costs? Thus each individual may effectively vote on the continuation of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by reducing consumption or continuing with the escalation of wasted energy by accepting Detroit's continued push to sell overpowered minidick compensation toys.

The truth is that oil companies want to keep consumption at its present level or increasing so they can make more money. Our economy in the US is based on continued growth which is unsustainable on a global (and even local) level. We have seen how shaky our house of cards really is, and our partial recovery from the events about a year ago will be followed by other possibly even more catastrophic meltdowns. Definitely in our lifetimes we will see and experience a radical change in the status quo and our expectations of achieving lavish and wasteful lifestyles for all.

Paul