Welding forklift forks

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message news:iT0Gg.6400$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

DO NOTHING.

They are called tines, not forks. If you don't know that much, you shouldn't mess with them.

They are made by a special process that involves a lot of heat and heat treating. Welding on them will destroy them.

If you have to, make some overshoes out of channel to slide into when you need a deeper set of tines.

But, then, the longer tines will greatly affect your lifting capacity, and stability, but you knew that already, didn't you?

Steve

=====================

I have seen this done frequently. If you have bulky loads that are simply too big to handle rather than too heavy, you may be OK. It may be worth a call to the fork truck manufacturer to see what they have available off the shelf in the way of extend forks or fork extensions.

Several problems:

(1) Longer forks *WON'T* increase the total [weight] load capacity.

(2) Longer forks by putting the center of gravity of the load further from the center of gravity of the fork truck may operationally *REDUCE* the load capacity because of the tendency to tip forward under load. See recent thread on adding ballast to the rear of the fork truck.

(3) Welding on the forks *MAY* reduce the strength, and you can't remove the extensions if you need/want to.

I have seen fork extensions that simply slipped over/around the existing forks. Generally these were left loose, but could be bolted, pinned or chained in place if desired/required. You may be able to get by with two pieces of rectangular steel tubing or channal iron with some straps welded across the open side.

Unka George (George McDuffee)

...and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased, and the epitaph drear: ?A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.?

Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).

Why not make "shoes" that slip over the original fork and extend it? As soon as you start welding on the original forks, you will temper them. You never know what they did with them. Play save!

Nick

Another thought.

If this is a commercial operation, your OSHA and/or workman's comp inspector may have a cow if they notice the modified/extended forks.

Many serious accidents have occurred when using a fork truck with modified forks and one of these broke or bent, generally because of gross overloading. The load will tip sideways very quickly, possibly tipping the truck on its side.

Fatalities have resulted, and there is an ongoing effort in many jurisdictions to file criminal in addition to civil complains/charges in these types of situations. Thus, as the responsible individual the event of an accident, you could get a

3 to 5 [year] all expense paid vacation for "reckless endangerment" or manslaughter at a state run facility, in addition to having a large OSHA fine levied against the company (assuming your company is not large enough to have sufficient suction/traction in Washington to be OSHA exempt.)

Additionally, there is some move to restrict the "workman's compensation" immunity to civil suits for on the job injuries to only the company/employer. Individual supervisors/managers that knowingly create egregiously hazardous conditions, without the knowledge of the employer, such as removing guards or lockouts, have on occasion been sued for "wrongful death," and/or injury, and in a few instances been found personally liable.

Unka George (George McDuffee)

...and at the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased, and the epitaph drear: ?A Fool lies here, who tried to hustle the East.?

Rudyard Kipling The Naulahka, ch. 5, heading (1892).

The overshoes for forks would be a PITA. They make it very hard/impossible to slip into a four way pallet.

I'm only extending the forks 6" to lift a 1000# load (pallet of apples). Its a 5000# lift truck.

Back to my question, any special welding instructions? What material is best? I plan on grinding and machining everything so you won't be able to tell they were extended.

Karl

Ah...from what little I know about forklift forks..start calling around and check to see if any forklift companies have any junker machines around and trade em the forks.

This is NOT something you want to do by welding...

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism. As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

"Karl Townsend" wrote

A forklift is made only after some serious engineering to determine center of gravity, load capacity, load elevation, and on and on and on.

What you are proposing MAY be to purposely exceed the limitations of the machine. Yes, you can put longer tines on there if you're lifting light loads. Yes, you can put counterweights on it if you're lifting heavier loads.

I have a lot of experience operating forklifts. I have seen some incredibly dumb and dangerous things done with no bad results. But then, I have seen a lot of bad results when someone just stepped over the line by a little bit.

You should consult with the manufacturer of the machine and see what the safety envelope is. Any real OPERATOR does this before he turns the key on ANY piece of machinery. From there, you can do any old thing you want to do with YOUR forklift.

As stated, if it's yours and you are running around on your property, go for it. If it is in any work environment where alterations to the machine can bring liability to you, that's a different story. Are you going to be the only operator, or can anyone jump on there who doesn't know to watch out when loading heavy items on the end of long tines? Hmmmm?

Please keep us posted on what you decide to do, and how it comes out. I am always interested in acid reality tests.

Also, post the loads you intend to be lifting, and the height you will be lifting to. What kind of surface will this motorized lift truck (OSHA terms) be operating on? What is the rating of the forklift? Hard tires? Soft tires? Mast lift? Articulated hydraulic lift arms? These facts can determine if you are inside the safety envelope or not.

In welding, construction, rigging, and life in general, I have seen some really dangerous and stupid things undertaken, and it all worked out with no one getting hurt.

And then there's the other times.

Good luck.

Steve

"Karl Townsend" wrote

Karl, I apologize. I didn't read the post clearly. Duh.

This is what I would do ...........

extend the forks.

Always keep the load low (barely off he ground) when moving around.

Have the truck ready to back under the load. Lift the load four inches off the deck and tilt back all the way. Lift enough to clear the truck. Have the truck back under the pallet but far enough away from the mast so you can tilt to vertical. DON'T MOVE THE FORKLIFT. When the truck is under the pallet, lower the load until you can set it down by tilting and lowering slightly. If the back end of the fork comes off the ground, the truck will catch it. When the pallet is on the truck, you can lift and shove to position, but try to sit it where it goes so you don't have to do a lot of pushing and shoving.

Sounds like what you want to do is doable, but I wouldn't run around with any loads up more than 4". Always be figuring for what ifs, because the first time you don't, it will bite you. I wouldn't use the extended tines on higher lifts, either to pick up or set a load. Keep tilted back to keep the center of gravity near the machine, and keep the load low.

As for welding, I'd cut some heavy plate, make a V groove, clamp it up to keep it from warping, and pour it full of 7018.

BUT, by the time you do all this, you will have an unstable machine, and a severely altered set of forks. Why not just get an extra set of proper forks for those special lifts?

Steve

Already been there, done that. This 30 year old machine has side shift and a non-standard upper fork end. I ain't gonna find what I need.

I got to do it anyway. So back to my question, how?

Karl

If you're so sure it's a good idea, go weld it then.

You realize by posting this question on the internet, you've publically stated your intentions to alter a machine in a fashion which could hurt or kill someone. Also, you've stated your intention to cover up this alteration to the extent that someone would have to know you had done anything to be able to check for the alteration.

"I plan on grinding and machining everything so you won't be able to tell they were extended."

I have been bitten in real life by posting a question which related to doing something that had no possibility of causing anyone any harm (it was on this group, BTW). There were several parties (links) in the chain that led back to me.

What about the next guy that has to use your forklift? Perhaps the next owner. Are you going to disclose your modification? What about if the forklift becomes part of your estate when you die and is sold off by the executor. Do you care about that executors liability?

We use forklifts everyday at work. While we use them in such a way that they are safe when everything is going well, if a fork broke, and a skid shifted allowing the load to slide off the skid, we could very surely have fatalities. Most of our equipment is second-hand too.

Regards,

Robin

Karl, many years ago I did the full boilermaker-welder tickets. I wouldn't do what you're asking because you don't know anything about the parent material or the heat treat. You're certainly going to destroy the heat treat, and it's possible you'll end up with a really nasty brittle heat affected zone. It's also possible it'll be annealed and bendy. Neither are desirable.

In addition, these days I manage a small marine engineering R&D group. What everyone has been telling you about legal risk is spot on. You're planning on altering a machine from the manufacturer's spec without engineering approval. If anything goes wrong, ever, you are toast.

You DON'T have to do it anyway. You've just decided this is the simplest/only solution to the problem you're facing.

How would you do this if you didn't have this forklift? The object is to lift/move an oversize pallet weighing 1000 lbs.

PDW

Hummmm...Im going to try starting my new Tine Lift tommorow.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism. As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

And they aren't tine lifts .. they are hi-lows.....with tines. :)

John

And according to OSHA, it's not a forklift, either. It is a "motorized lift truck." The OP was talking about the "tines", which is the correct nomenclature for "forks" to the uninitiated or untrained.

When you go to buy replacements, do you order a "fork" or a "tine"? Actually, on an eating fork, a tine is one of the spears. Or on a pitchfork. Or on any number of implements or tools.

Steve

1910.178(a)(4)

Modifications and additions which affect capacity and safe operation shall not be performed by the customer or user without manufacturers prior written approval. Capacity, operation, and maintenance instruction plates, tags, or decals shall be changed accordingly.

Go to:

for more than you want to know about the rules.

dont weld to the ends of the forks under any circumstances , we weld a nd straighten forks at work , they are heat treated real specifically,

if all you need is extensions , make them out of 2x5 x1/4 wa;ll tubing make some ears on the truck end and put a retainig bolt thru to keep them form sliding off.

a 4to 8 > >

The best set of light weight extensions I've seen used channel the length needed but the legs of the channel were just long enough to extend downward to the bottom of the forks (which is what all the machinery movers I've known have called them). At the end closest to the fork lift the legs extended back past the upright of the fork and two holes were drilled to allow a pin to extend from one to the other behind the end of the fork. This captured the fork and prevented it from sliding forward. There are some lifts where the room for this is not available.

Toward the tip of the fork IIRC there was another set of holes allowing another pin to pass through under the taper of the fork tip. This of course would keep the extensions from flopping around and twisting.

This type of extension is only slightly thicker than the original fork and should still, allowing for the overall thickness of a 5000# fork, let you get under pallets. I don't remember if the ends of the pins had threads or holes for clips but would suggest captured clips.

I've never met a welder who would suggest trying what you suggest which makes me think it's nothing anyone else has heard of either. Good luck.

dennis in nca

P.S. I vote for forks not tines.

Karl Townsend wrote in article ...

I'm not one-hundred-percent sure, but I would be more than willing to bet that the metalurgical inspector working for OSHA, would be able to tell that a weld had been done while inspecting the area where the bend/break occured which led up to the incident that attracted OSHA's attention.

Couple that with the fact that the machine probably didn't offer that particular length fork, and the conclusion will be that YOU modified it.

Even if you went out and BOUGHT exact length tines that actually FIT your machine, if the machine was not specifically designed for, or intended to use that particular length tine, you will have a l-o-n-g period of time in which you will become intimately familiar with governmental bureaucrats.

And.......You just might want to mention this whole thing to your various insurance providers, dropping it into some small talk.

All the above just goes to prove that we have way too many lawyers around us. The OP wants to lift an oversize load of one-fifth the machine's capacity, with the CG of that load 3" further out than normal (assuming that the density is uniform and that the 6" extension is to accommodate the entire pallet). Unless the fork steel was of fairly high carbon content or of some fancy manganese or vanadium or unobtainium alloy or maybe undergo heat treatment other than normalizing, welding it should present no problems whatever. The bigger mistake might be to cut the forks back too much and put the weld too near the machine. I'd be inclined to weld an extension along the bottom of the existing fork without trimming it or trying to hide it. I get really scared when I see forks rewelded right at the bend where they usually crack. But of course, lawyers and juries know nothing about anything except paper and ink and money and power and will make an issue of it, regardless of any engineering abilities of anybody but the forklift manufacturer, who is too scared to offer any help. And here I thought aircraft regulations were overbearing...

Dan