Silk, Silkspan ...

Saw an ad for a glider that somebody was selling, and it says --

covered in silk (not silkspan!)

I've personally used Monocote and Ultracote, and I've seen some gliders covered with some really thin translucent coverings. But I've no experience with silk or silkspan ...

Is this silk like the silk that clothes are made of? If so, that doesn't sound like a very good plane covering ...

Any advantages/disadvantages to silk or silkspan over monocote or ultracote?

Reply to
Doug McLaren
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ED, I agree with your comments, but you can't beat the look of a really nice silk covered model. I use it all the time on the models it suits.

I do think it is stronger than plastic, and it grips to the framework better.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Regards

Tom Watson Sydney Australia

Reply to
Tommy

Mmm. I think you are wrong there. It is a lot harder to puncture than film on an open structure, and was always teh last thing to break on my models.

I'd definitely use it again on a big old fashioned or WWI type model.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I suspect the difference between your and my experience is that we American modelers did not use pure silk for covering if we bought it from the hobbyshop. There were many blends of fibers. Some were tough, some were not.

If fabric is punctured, it is a PITA to repair. Plastic covering takes only seconds.

However, it is permitted for you, or anyone else, to disagree, but I can't let you say that I was wrong. I was not.

Ed Cregger

preparation to

Reply to
Ed Cregger

Ah. I never bought any from the modelshop either. I THINK I got mine in a jumble sale - and cut it out of some used underwear. It was pink. I remember that.

I have some now - jap silk - used in dressmaking. Just waiting for the right plane. I dyed some of it with turmeric - you know, the stuff in curry that stains ebverything yellow - and boy does it look like WWI material now :-)

The model shops only sold nylon - heavier, but tougher.

I have picked up a nylon bag full of scrap balsa with a PAW19 hanging

off the front. Not a mark on the nylon, shame about the combat plane....:-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Uh, depends on the fabric. Pure silk and Silkspan take only seconds to repair: Cut an appropriate strip of material, apply dope to the rip, then dope-on the repair piece. Let dry. Takes about 20 seconds at the field and you're ready to fly.

Personally, I've had a lot more trouble fixing tears in plastic coverings. And, unless you have access to household current at the field, repairs mean having to go home.

Moe

Reply to
Moe Blues

My experience with silk was in C/L, and as I recall, the best thing about it was that after a crash (or mid-air, in combat), all you had to do was go pick up the silk bag full of balsa dust and splinters and dispose of it...

Roger

Ed Cregger wrote:

Reply to
Roger Guinn

Oh, you want good looks, too? Best not be looking at any of my models: Fly great, look like crap. (On the other hand, all the patches add to that 50-mission realism!)

Moe

Reply to
Moe Blues

All that stuiff ever did was make me dizzy, short of breath and have a headache. There are better chemicals out there these days :-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

In either case, a small roll of packing tape will do a quick field repair. Fix it when you get it home.

Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) remove POST in address for email

Reply to
Dan Thompson

We used to use balsa cement actually. I I think we did get one rp in one silk model once. But mostly the silk outlasted the models. Even the nylon did as well

Whereas tissue endied up handing in tatters almost immediately. Solite would have been a godsend on those rubber models :)(

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I have to disagree with Ed also. I have flown silk cover planes for years and can guarantee they were not fragile at all. After a crash they would be a bag of wood chips but the silk would be undamaged. I have hanging in the Barn right now a Taurus, a AAMCO Aeromaster, and a Kwik-Fli that all are vintage late 60s models. The Taurus still has its F&M 10 channel reed radio gear installed. The Aeromaster has a Merco 61 installed and I bet with a new radio it would fly fine. All are silk covered and are almost 40 years old. They still look and feel good.

Silkspan was brittle and would tear easy, maybe that's what you are thinking of. I agree silk and dope can be a bit heavy but you cant beat the smell of Banana oil and lacquer thinner. That's what models was all about. Just my opinion.

Yes, I am an old fart

Dave Carr used to be AMA7138

Reply to
Dave Carr

My 4 Star 40 covered in Monocote had accumulated 17 pieces of packing tape before I ever repaired them using Monocote.

One entire rib bay had been covered in packing tape for about 24 months.

You can use a heating iron to pull the wrinkles out of the packing tape and use it just like transparent covering and it last just as long.

I prefer to think of it as Instant Monocote, instead of packing tape.

Some brands stick better than others. I like the DUCK name brand.

Reply to
emcook

Ahh - back to the good old days!

Yes, silk for models is just a thin, closely-woven fabric made of the cocoons of silkworms. To apply:

Paint the frame with a couple of coats of clear dope. Sand off the fuzzies.

Wet the silk (not dampen - wet) and lay it in the frame. Flatten out as much as you can. Paint clear dope onto the silk where it needs to adhere to the frame. (Yes, the dope turns white and the mess looks awful.)

When the silk and dope are dry, the silk is tight as a drum. Trim it and apply clear dope over everything (this will make the white dope become clear). Do this on a dry day, or the dope will blush (turn white) all over.

There is a trick to trimming where silk goes over a sharp edge. Bend the silk over the edge, and hit the edge with a bit of 320 grit sandpaper.

From here, you can do any of the following:

Paint with auto body primer, sand wet, repeat until very smooth. Then, paint with colored dope, followed by a clear coat of butyrate dope to make the covering fuel proof. I've never done this, but I have seen the result on a U-Control stunt plane. Very pretty.

If colored silk was used (or if you like the clear-white look), just fuel proof. I used to do that with U-Control combat planes.

I have seen colored tissue put on over silk with thinner only. Then, apply the butyrate dope . This is much lighter than paint. The only problem is that silk follows compound curves, and tissue does not.

Silkspan is just high-grade tissue. Use much the same technique, except the wet silkspan is applied with thinner to stick it down, then fuel proofed if needed.

Silk is easy to repair. Just dope the place for the patch, lay down a piece of silk, then dope again. If it is small, you don't need to worry about water.

For the planes I build now, I use Monokote. It's easier, never blushes, etc. I also use CA hinges instead of the under-over cloth hinges.

I wonder what the age of the glider is . . .

-- Mike

Reply to
Mike Norton

Chemicals to attach silk or to get high? :) mk

Reply to
mk

They don't smell as good tho

Reply to
Dave Carr

The Kavalier utilizes a foam wing and a solid tail, right? I'm talking about silk over open structures, such as wings, etc. All I am trying to point out that is you may have used the silk on such a plane to hide the wood grain. Or maybe not. I'm not trying to start a fight.

As I have already stated, perhaps my experience was not typical because of the types of "silk" I have used in the past.

I have used WWII surplus silk from parachutes. I have covered combat flying wings (control line, of course) with "silk" scarfs that I bought in a department store. I have used Sig Koverall and probably a few other variations of material.

I always used butyrate dope, never nitrate. A friend of mine tells me that this is why my thirty plus year old Goldberg Voodoo popped its covering at about age ten.

I'm not an expert at this and I will be the first to admit it.

On the other hand, I have some Super Monokote covered models that are twenty plus years old and they look almost as good as new. Perhaps it is the climate difference?

Ed Cregger

Reply to
Ed Cregger

My apologies to everyone. I went out into the garage and discovered that my Voodoo was not covered with fabric. It is covered with silkspan and painted with either Aerogloss or butyrate dope. My bad.

Ed Cregger

Reply to
Ed Cregger

I may be wrong Ed, but I think Hobby Shop silk that was intended for Model building was much thinner and also much lighter then parachute silk and silk scarves. I to used Aero- Gloss Butyrate dope. Maybe the hobbyshop silk was more durable.

I am not trying to start a fight either. I was just surprised that silk was considered weak. Also the smell of Dope and sanded Balsa is a smell I will never forget. I have flashbacks whenever I smell Lacquer thinner.

Dave Carr

Reply to
Dave Carr

Lets not go there :)

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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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