I have about 100 changes done in the form of illustrated tutorial question tests at
| I have about 100 changes done in the form of illustrated tutorial | question tests at
So when can we start ordering panels with more than 42 space without having to smuggle them in from Canada?
So, now you're admitting to criminal activities, and violating the NEC. It doesn't surprise me.
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:50:00 -0500 Michael A. Terrell wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> |> On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:56:23 -0800 (PST) Gerald Newton wrote: |> |> | I have about 100 changes done in the form of illustrated tutorial |> | question tests at
You need to do TWO things:
Then you need to understand the concept of density loading a panel. Even if I were to get an 84 space panel from Canada and install it in an area where NEC 2005 or earlier applies, the rules do not restrict the number of spaces in the panel ... they restrict the number of circuit poles that originate in that panel.
GFCI and AFCI breaker actually dissipate power. I sure hope you understand that means they produce heat and get warm, possibly even hot, and possibly causing false trips when a circuit is really only near its limit. Further, being in that heated condition for years continuously can shorten the life of some of these parts that were nto designed for this.
Spacing the breakers apart means the heat at least dissipates from the breakers into the air space inside the panel better. I look forward to an 84 space panel marketed in the USA not so I can put in 84 circuits in one panel, but so I can put in 42 circuits with AFCI breakers, and space them apart to manage the heat better.
In the 2008 NEC they did expand the 42 pole limit for panelboards and eliminated "lighting and appliance panelboards" altogether. This change brings the USA NEC more into compliance with the Canadian Electrical Code. Eventually both Codes will merge, I suppose. The Canadian Code has an Article on Cathodic Protection that the NEC should adopt. Having worked at the Trans-Alaska Pipeline Valdez Marine Terminal several years ago, I found that there is indeed a need for identifying Cathodic Protection conductors so we did not get them confused with grounding conductors. There is one hell of a lot of impressed current cathodic protection conductors there in cable trays and directly buried and they are not readily identified. The Canadians use orange coloring, signs and so forth to make sure electricians know what they are. As far as the 66 pole Canadian panelboards in about 1993 I wrote up many such anomalies while inspecting two $11 million Contingency Construction Camps that Alyeska bought for the Pipeline that were made in Canada. Travco out of Edmonton, Canada got a waiver approved by proving that the loads on these panels were less than allowed in a 42 circuit panelboard when all circuits are loaded to 80 per cent.
If it's humor, you let people know with :0 ;-) or any of the other smileys.
I understand very well, but I don't give a damn, because my wire pulling days are behind me, and I will probably never see the panel you're drooling over. No more rushing to a school to find the equipment was ok, but there was an electrical problem. No more finding that some idiot had replaced a split 120/240 outlet with a standard duplex outlet, and they needed to be up and running in ten minutes. In fact, I don't run at all, anymore. I limp with a cane, and can not climb ladders.
DUH! So do lose connections, contact resistance in standard breakers, undersized neutrals and the coils in the magnetic breakers. I've worked around old panels with thermal breakers that were so hot that you couldn't touch them on a summer day. they were in my high school, and the building was under wired for that time period. The first floor had three 200 A three phase breakers, but the load was calculated for lighting and very few other loads when it was built. Fast forward 30 years with lots of TV sets, projectors and rooms full of typewriters, it was inadequate.
I repeat: DUH!!!
They could easily make 42 pole panels with space between the breakers. they could even put aluminum fins on the inside and outside of the box, and a fan to circulate the heat inside the box. Instead, you want a more expensive box that still doesn't get rid of the heat.
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:00:01 -0500 Michael A. Terrell wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> |> On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:50:00 -0500 Michael A. Terrell wrote: |> | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> |>
|> |> On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:56:23 -0800 (PST) Gerald Newton wrote: |> |>
|> |> | I have about 100 changes done in the form of illustrated tutorial |> |> | question tests at
|> |> So when can we start ordering panels with more than 42 space without |> |> having to smuggle them in from Canada? |> | |> | |> | So, now you're admitting to criminal activities, and violating the |> | NEC. It doesn't surprise me. |> |> You need to do TWO things: |> |> 1. Read the 2008 NEC. Reading the changes might be sufficient. |> |> 2. Get a clue about humor. | | | If it's humor, you let people know with :0 ;-) or any of the other | smileys.
The obvious humor doesn't need it.
|> GFCI and AFCI breaker actually dissipate power. | | | DUH! So do lose connections, contact resistance in standard | breakers, undersized neutrals and the coils in the magnetic breakers. | I've worked around old panels with thermal breakers that were so hot | that you couldn't touch them on a summer day. they were in my high | school, and the building was under wired for that time period. The | first floor had three 200 A three phase breakers, but the load was | calculated for lighting and very few other loads when it was built. | Fast forward 30 years with lots of TV sets, projectors and rooms full of | typewriters, it was inadequate.
If you had a loose connection on _every_ circuit, you would have quite a bit of heat.
But in any event, things like loose connections can be corrected when discovered (if discovered before they cause damage). The heat from the GFCI/AFCI breaker circuit is there to stay. You can't just remove it because the panel gets hot (because nearly all 42 breakers are of that type).
|> Spacing the breakers apart means the heat at least dissipates from the |> breakers into the air space inside the panel better. I look forward to |> an 84 space panel marketed in the USA not so I can put in 84 circuits in |> one panel, but so I can put in 42 circuits with AFCI breakers, and space |> them apart to manage the heat better. | | | They could easily make 42 pole panels with space between the | breakers. they could even put aluminum fins on the inside and outside | of the box, and a fan to circulate the heat inside the box. Instead, | you want a more expensive box that still doesn't get rid of the heat.
Yes, they could. That might even be a better way to do it. The point is they don't do that now. What they make now are panels with 54, 66, 72, and
84 slots (based on Schneider/Square-D Canadian Catalog for NQOD and NF series). This is cheaper because there is no new design needed. Just sell these panels in the USA in areas where NEC 2008 is adopted.Maybe they will get the idea and make panels designed to better dissipate the heat, once AFCI is more commonly used.
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