Convert cold fill washing machine to hot and cold fill

I think it would be a horribly complicated operation, involving not only replumbing the inside workings of the machine, but also reprogramming the circuit board!

Are there really no machines left that have hot fill? I've not had cause to buy one in about 12 years, but I'm sure my current model is reaching the end of its natural life, and I'd like to have a hot fill one (even with my combi, I'm not sure why having a combi should make any difference).

Something like a hose from h&C supply going to a high-hysteresis thermostatic mixer unit, with a non-return valve on the cold side, and a hose from that going to the "cold" fill?

It has to be a high hysteresis "bang-bang" valve because of the possible pressure difference between supplies. The non-return valve prevents the possibility of contaminating the cold water main.

If the mixer is variable, you would set it to give an average supply temperature set to the highest acceptable temperature for any clothing material that is going to be washed..

This does mean that the machine does get water supplied at much the same temperature throughout the year, heated hopefully by a cheaper power source than full-price electricity, and washing cycles are significantly quicker as there is shorter delays for water heating.

I've thought about it - but most of the year now I get my hot water from an immersion heater, so it would actually cost me more - in hot water sat in pipes.

But it would be fairly straightforward to do - without interfering with the machine and/or invalidating its warranty. It's obviously not as good as a machine taking both supplies and able to set its own temperature for different cycles or parts of them.

But without changing things round inside the machine it will take in hot water not just for the wash, but also for each rinse in the cycle (I think there are usually three). Using hot water to rinse isn't necessary, and the small amount you save from using gas-heated water to wash in will be eaten up several times over by doing hot rinses.

As in, "It's obviously not as good as a machine taking both supplies and able to set its own temperature for different cycles or parts of them." ;)

My old thing actually appears to use hot (or at least warm) water for rinses, as the clothes are still pretty warm after the spin cycle. I can get the washing to the line and all pegged up without my fingers freezing off...so that is one economy measure I think that I will skip.

I would look to the water inputs, rather than to the circuitry and valve control.

A caveat - I do not know if the "no-hot-setting" machines use plastic that cannot take heat, e.g., hot water will soften the plastic hose connection and the hose will slowly come off the valve threads.

("How-to" follows the types of easily used valves)

1) If you are handy with plumbing, you could mount lever-type ball valves with spigots and use them to block cold water and pass through hot water into the cold water input.

2) There are wall-mounted manual "lever-throw" shutoff valves made specifically for washing machine input water control that take hose conenctions. I would use this type of shut-off because the lever is one motion, and many do not require "hard plumbing". To use it, it would be a "yes-no" kind of selection.

Some use one lever to simultaneously control flow on both outputs, and some are two-lever types that control the hot and cold water separately. The two lever-type (one for hot and one for cold) is the easiest for your application -otherwise, you will need two one-lever wall-mount types.

3) There are also mixing valves (made to keep pipes in walls from sweating by mixing some hot water in with the cold) that could be used to get a "hot" wash from a cold machine. It would go in-line to the cold water input, but you would need to adjust the mixing proportions for the particular wash, usually with a screwdriver or wrench. Not as clean as the lever.

4) There are "selector" "Y"s that you could use, where you turn a small lever on the "Y" to open one side and shut off the other. Most are made to select without pressure on them, and the valve will be hot. And you are always holding it and moving the hose around

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I have never seen a cold-only input machine, but less us assume there is no hot water input, just cold, for purposes of discussion. (The cold water input on a dual input machine will be connected in the same manner)

The idea is to feed hot water only into the machine.

Connect the non-machine end of the hose on the cold water connection of the machine to an open "Y".

If the new wall-mounted valve is not so equipped, connect a back-flow valve on each free end of the "Y", so water can only flow into the wash machine.

Connect one end of the backcheck valve on the "Y" through one side of the wall mounted one-throw shutoff valve, and connect the shutoff valve to the cold water spigot. Now you can turn off the cold water.

Connect the other backcheck valve to the "second one-lever valve"/ "other side of the two lever valve", and connect the shutoff valve to the hot water spigot. Now you can turn on the hot water.

Mark the valve-lever(s) position for hot wash and cold wash.

To wash hot, turn off the cold water lever and turn on the hot water lever. Only hot water will be fed into the machine.

To wash cold, reverse the levers.

or something like that...

I installed an AEG today and even it did not have hot fill, what chance lesser machines?

water at the faucet. Not elegant, but works.

Chuck P.

Its not at all practical to make a cold fill machine into a dual fill.

If you want to do it manually, there is one easy way, and thats to run a bit of microbore in thru the back of the machine and into the top of the soap dispenser, and fill it before starting the cycle. The pipe can be clipped securely to the machine body at the back to stop it coming out of place, and a few turns would enable it to take up the WM movement.

I cant think of any reason to do it though, especially as it'll give you poorer wash results.

NT

Hi NT,

The reason would be to save money and energy by heating the water by gas rather then electricity.

I don't understand why you think the result would be a poorer wash. So long as the water in the machine during the wash phase is at the temperature required by the powder (say 40=B0C) it doesn't matter how you heat it.

Martin

| snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote: | |> I cant think of any reason to do it though, especially as it'll give |> you poorer wash results. | | Hi NT, | | The reason would be to save money and energy by heating the water by | gas rather then electricity.

Technically speaking, it's the same energy. One might argue that gas heating more easily allows some heat to escape via the flue. The money it costs, however, can be altogether different matter.

This assumes a utility energy supply. People with a natural free energy supply make different choices based on the supply and storage capacity. And usually, gas isn't among the free choices whereas electricity more commonly is. And gas is usually a fossil fuel (hydrogen generated from electricity of course is quite the opposite).

| I don't understand why you think the result would be a poorer wash. So | long as the water in the machine during the wash phase is at the | temperature required by the powder (say 40?C) it doesn't matter how | you heat it.

If always a cold rince is OK, go for it.

On 21 Nov 2006 15:11:28 GMT someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote this:-

However, the choice of having a hot and cold fill washing machine is being eliminated by the manufacturers, simply in order to make things easier for themselves. If hot water is available heated by a solar panel burning electricity to heat cold water is not a good idea on any grounds.

Just add another fill valve to the back of the machine, tee into the cold fill pipe on the inside, and use a toggle switch or timer relay to switch between the two.

Fill valve should be about £5 from a spares place or free off an old WM at the local tip.

cheers, Pete.

Whirlpool seem to be the only manufacturer to still fit hot and cold feeds, well according to the Sainsbury online electrical store.

I would have thought with the increasing popularity of solar water heating there would be an increased demand for such machines not less.

H

Hi Phil,

I take your point that 1kwh is 1kwh whether it's gas-powered or electrical. However, I was thinking of energy in overall production terms rather than just what the end-user gets. Obviously to produce

1kwh of electricity uses a lot more gas at a gas-powered power station than it would take to produce 1kwh of power from the combi in my boiler cupboard.

Given the increasingly dire warnings of climate change that we get, that seems more important than a couple of pence off the utilities bills.

Martin

The problem, IIRC, is that modern machines use a lot less water than older ones, and given the reaction time of thermostats there is reckoned to be a risk of dumping very hot water on clothes which need to be washed on a cool setting. I don't know about anyone else, but I never use a hotter wash than 50C.

But no doubt cost saving comes into it too.

Well, with gas you've got boiler flue losses and pipe heat losses. OTOH the gas that makes the leccy probably uses even more energy.

Heating from cold to target temp in the washtub gives the washpowder more time in the tub, as the wash timer doesnt start ticking till its heated. Second it gives the powder the chance to work at different temps, instead of all at the same temp. This is especially important with bio powders, fill the tub with 60C water and you get no bio action, fill it at 20 and heat it, and it will work in a different way at the different temp bands it goes thru, giving a better wash. So you've got 2 ways in which you'll see poorer results.

The 3rd problem is that the hot fill water will be too hot for the clothes in many cases.

But really far more important is just that its a waste of human time and energy.

NT

I noticed most of the replies were from Britain - so a question about these cold water machines... (We tend to "Warm wash" here)

So what do asthmatics in Britain/Europe do when (per doctor's instructions) they have to wash their bedding in hot water to kill the house mites that aggravate asthma? Are there machines available on prescription, or bedding services for them?

Do you add 3x-4x more chlorine and oxide bleach, since they are much less chemically active in cold water?

Is all cold water softened in Britain, or do you always add some borax or other softener, or do you just throw clothes away when the fibers have built up with soap residue after a couple years?

What do you do about diapers ("nappies")? (Cold water washing diapers in high efficiency machines here is a sure road to e-coli, in those and subsequent loads, and soap residue is a leading source of diaper rash here.)

Just curious.

They are cold *fill* machines. They still hot wash (very hot if you wish) - using an electric element in the machine to heat the water. They just don't connect to both the hot and cold water supply in order to fill.

Many machines now use a very tiny amount of water - so the heating requirement is much, much less than times gone by - and they use much, much less water than the US machines I have seen.

instructions)

ok - thanks