Fake Square D Circuit Breakers (RECALL)

Thanks Joe.

Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the CPSC site and found the following recalls of apparently the same counterfeit SquareD breakers:

5-2008 Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above) 371,000 breakers 12-2007 North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif. 50,000 breakers 10-2007 Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of Puyallup, Wash 64,000 breakers 11-2006 Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa 30,000 breakers Crossposted to alt.home.repair

Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are not made to the same specs as any other QO?

RBM wrote: ...

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

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Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

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OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

RBM wrote: ...

I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the earlier posting...

Similar happening in the UK.

Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much attention to it

Well, if you're going to pay enough attention to ask questions...

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years ago I repaired machines at a westinghose electric swith gear plant in beaver pa, very nice people.

one day i walked by as a explosion rocked the building, they were testing a knock off breaker at rated load, and it exploded......

it was a big issue whoever made them marked them westinghouse, although they werent the same quality..........

westinghose was being sued for a breaker they didnt manufacturer...

knockoffs arent a good thing

There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus:

So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in fuse sockets in the olden days?

|>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers, |>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same |>>

|>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no |>> instances of failing to trip? |>>

|>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the |>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell. |>>

|>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's |>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec. |> |> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits |> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip | | There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found | in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture | in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent | parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.

|>>> RBM wrote: | >>>

|>>>>> RBM wrote: |>>>>> ... |>>>>>> Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers |>>>>>> are not made to the same specs as any other QO? |>>>>> No non-counterfeit recalls are there? |>>>>>

|>>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers, |>>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same |>>>

|>>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no |>>> instances of failing to trip? |>>>

|>>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the |>>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell. |>>>

|>>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's |>>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec. |>> |>> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits |>> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip |> |> There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found |> in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture |> in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent |> parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch. | | So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's | breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in | fuse sockets in the olden days?

Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers. If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing. Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different

7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.

I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.

AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and undercutting the official distributors.

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote: | In article , | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net writes: |> In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote: |>| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found |>| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture |>| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent |>| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch. |> |> How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one |> of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed. | | AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how | their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and | undercutting the official distributors.

Ah, that would do it, too.

My heat pump has a switch in circuit breaker format in the disconnect box on the side of the house. A breaker isn't necessary out there, as the branch is protected in the main panel and nothing else is on it.