Fake Square D Circuit Breakers (RECALL)

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2008/squared.html

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Joe Leikhim K4SAT
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RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:

Thanks Joe.
Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the CPSC site and found the following recalls of apparently the same counterfeit SquareD breakers:
5-2008 Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above) 371,000 breakers http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08286.html
12-2007 North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif. 50,000 breakers http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html
10-2007 Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of Puyallup, Wash 64,000 breakers http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html
11-2006 Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa 30,000 breakers http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html
Crossposted to alt.home.repair
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Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
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RBM wrote: ...

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?
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RBM wrote:

Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no instances of failing to trip?
I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.
And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.
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OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

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RBM wrote: ...

I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the earlier posting...
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Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much attention to it

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RBM wrote:

Well, if you're going to pay enough attention to ask questions...
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years ago I repaired machines at a westinghose electric swith gear plant in beaver pa, very nice people.
one day i walked by as a explosion rocked the building, they were testing a knock off breaker at rated load, and it exploded......
it was a big issue whoever made them marked them westinghouse, although they werent the same quality..........
westinghose was being sued for a breaker they didnt manufacturer...
knockoffs arent a good thing
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There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus:

>>>>

So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in fuse sockets in the olden days?
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| On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus: |
|>>
| >>>> |>>>>> RBM wrote: |>>>>> ... |>>>>>> Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers |>>>>>> are not made to the same specs as any other QO? |>>>>> No non-counterfeit recalls are there? |>>>>> |>>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers, |>>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same |>>> |>>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no |>>> instances of failing to trip? |>>> |>>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the |>>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell. |>>> |>>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's |>>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec. |>> |>> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits |>> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip |> |> There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found |> in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture |> in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent |> parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch. | | So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's | breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in | fuse sockets in the olden days?
Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers. If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing. Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different 7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.
I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.
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My heat pump has a switch in circuit breaker format in the disconnect box on the side of the house. A breaker isn't necessary out there, as the branch is protected in the main panel and nothing else is on it.
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|>
|>>>> RBM wrote: |>>>> ... |>>>>> Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers |>>>>> are not made to the same specs as any other QO? |>>>> No non-counterfeit recalls are there? |>>>> |>>>> --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers, |>>>> so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same |>> |>> Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no |>> instances of failing to trip? |>> |>> I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the |>> baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell. |>> |>> And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's |>> not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec. |> |> OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits |> that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip | | There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found | in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture | in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent | parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.
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     snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net writes:

AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and undercutting the official distributors.
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Andrew Gabriel
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| snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net writes:
wrote: |>| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found |>| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture |>| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent |>| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch. |> |> How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one |> of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed. | | AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how | their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and | undercutting the official distributors.
Ah, that would do it, too.
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RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:

Similar happening in the UK. <http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/9428/infopro.whatsnew.latest/Counterfeiting-Alert.html
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