Arlowe thou truly Ar low..I am not even going to dignify yon blunder with rephrasing...ye are just an arse....let alone bare.
Yon pdf sample pictures and mentation on the subject are a fraud, as ye art entirely fraudulent with yon dull superfluous electrical delusions.
As for ye mentioning The Roy in this thread -
Go fucketh thyself ! ! !
The Mighty WontVolt
In article , snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk says...>
Jump into a discussion late, with both feet, often?
Read the thread.
Wow! I'm impressed! For a sparky, you're pretty sharp, there.
In article ,=20 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...>=20
:ps.com...
SO there *is* something wrong with a digital meter. I thought you=20 sparkys were just telling me that the display type didn't matter.
You couldn't afford me. I understand electricity.
Bare Arsed Arlowe wrote: Rich Grise laid this down on his screen : On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe wrote: The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't. It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a crowded panel. Then pick the right voltmeter for the job, duh. Hope This Helps! Rich No shit... exactly my point. A voltmeter with a high impedance is not the tool to use to test for live circuits....
Thou art truly an arse, yon point is moot. High Z meters are safer to use on live circuits, the high side construction is part of the best protection against adverse contact or trumped up off scale measurements..
Stop smokin that wacky tobacy, and go puteth some pants on, Fool.
The Mighty WontVolt
It happens that krw formulated :
bullshit. you are just another wannabe...
In article ,=20 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...>=20
te:
oups.com...
Heavens no! I have no interest in becoming a sparky. Crappy work,=20 low pay, and no fun.
krw laid this down on his screen :
Only for cable monkeys. Find the right niche and you can name your price.
In article ,=20 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...>=20
:ed
rote:
groups.com...
So even in a perfect niche it's still crappy work and no fun, but=20 pays well (doubt it). Even your perfect niche is two huge steps=20 down. No thanks. =20
It happens that krw formulated :
So you know nothing about working in the field...and you accuse me of not knowing how to use my tools?
lol
In article ,=20 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...>=20
te:
nned
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I know enough to have a better life.
No, I accuse you of not understanding electricity.
Nice to know someone round here knows what they are doing!
Really? They both use resistive divider networks across the DUT.
That depends on what you consider a live circuit.
krw formulated on Friday :
Just goes to show you know nothing about the field.
Well, I am accusing you of the same.
In article ,=20 snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...>=20
rote:
penned
oglegroups.com...
Hardly, sparky.
You have demonstrated you total lack of knowledge here repeatedly. =20
I really don't understand the resistance (if you will excuse the expression) to Arloe.
Of course both analog and digital meters (excluding, for practical purposes, the original topic) have resistive input. For the purposes Arloe uses a meter, the intentionally high impedance of most digital meters is a liability. The lower impedance of an analog meter, and some digital meters, is an advantage.
alt.home.repair gets more electric power questions than this newsgroup, with the OP usually less technical savvy (some at a.e.e that aren't either). It is rather common for someone to ask why there is 83 volts on a wire that should be dead. The common response is it is a "phantom voltage" picked up by using a high impedance digital meter and to use an analog meter (or light bulb). As Arloe said "An analog meter 'IS A LOAD' a DMM is NOT."
Arloe is just saying to use the appropriate tool. In addition, he can't kludge a lower impedance onto a high impedance meter. He may meter power circuits that have an available fault current of tens of thousands of amps. In the US you may need to wear a "flash suit" to merely meter the voltage. The meter must be designed to safely fail on those circuits.
Same applies to responses to Stewart, who is speaking from professional experience.
Posted through googlegroups (yech) because my news source apparently doesn't like cross posting.
-- bud--
In article , snipped-for-privacy@isp.com says...>
penned
The issue is his (and others') insistence that a high impedance meter (and indeed even a digital meter) cannot be used in these circumstances. The fact is that it can, though one has to understand that what one is reading may not be correct. These errors are easily prevented/corrected, something the sparkys simply cannot understand.
Of course, "analog" has nothing to do with it (as some have claimed). How does he know that even the analog meter isn't lying to him for similar reasons? The fact is that one has to understand the tools and work with them. A "load" is easy. Preventing a low impedance meter from loading a circuit is difficult.
No, he's saying that that is the only tool possible. The fact is that a high impedance meter *can* be used, though one has to be careful. Something evidently beyond the average sparky.
That isn't the issue, and you know it.
Perhaps "professional" experience, but limited knowledge.
Get a new one. They're cheap.
Arloe understands =93that it can=94 and =93understands what one is reading may not be correct=94. Arloe understands that if he reads 83 volts with a high impedance meter he doesn=92t know if the voltage is real or =93phantom=94. So how is the measurement useful? Maybe electricians are too fussy about knowing whether the circuits the work on are live?
Arloe does understand. That is why he uses an appropriate tool. And I am a licensed master electrician. I guess I must not understand either.
A high impedance meter reads 83 volts. What do you know? How do you prevent? How do you correct?
The term =93analog=94 is used because (without an amplifier) they are inherently low impedance in the context of the measurements Arloe is making. (With a good 50 microamp movement you might still see some phantom voltage. AC ranges are likely way under 20k ohms/volt.)
Arloe does understand the tools. That is why he wants to use a lower impedance meter on power circuits.
Not explained - how do you =93work with=94 a high impedance meter? What is the =93work with=94 procedure if you measure 83 volts?
How do you =93easily=94 provide a load if you are measuring power circuits with a high impedance meter?
Of course. If you have a high impedance circuit you use a high impedance meter. Use the appropriate tool.
Power circuits are not high impedance.
He is saying that a low impedance meter is the appropriate tool for the measurements he is making.
Arloe measures 83 volts with a high impedance meter. What does that tell him?
May or may not be. You haven=92t explained how you =93work with=94 a high impedance meter. What is the =93work with=94 procedure if you measure 83 volts?
Your Ouija board is very accurate and, of course, is the appropriate tool. Is it high impedance?
-- bud--
It *is* a phantom voltage. It's not so much that measurement is useful but the fact that it's not. How to take the measurement to
*not* get this reading is the point. That takes some brains he ain't got, apparently.No, apparently they're too dumb to use the instruments correctly and to know when to *not* take what they're reading as fact.
No, he doesn't understand. His "low" impedance meter isn't all that low and can still have these measurement artifacts. He's too stupid to understand what he's seeing.
That it most likely ain't 83V.
A number of things. Mainly, no matter what the meter, not to trust it.
Load the circuit. Turn on a light bulb. Use a resistor. Any number of things, depending on the circuit and the wire in question.
They can still be thousands of ohms per volt.
No, he's been told what tools to use. He understands nothing. A high impedance meter can certainly be used, though one has to know what he's doing. Arloe is clueless.
I told you, several times. I can't help it of you're in Arloe's league.
Maybe a light will come on.
No, *understand* your tool *AND* your business.
They certainly are, if not connected.
No, that's not what he's saying. You're coming in in the middle here.
How many times are you going to ask this silly question?
I have many times. I can't help it if you, like Arloe, are too dumb to read.
No, it's what sparkys use, apparently.
You are wasting you time with this idiot.
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