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Need flex solution to switch from single to multi back to single family

BACKGROUND:

1910 Queen-Ann Victorian in Oil City, PA Currently has three 100A panels, one for each floor. I will add one more meter for the basement where I will put an apartment, but for the sake of this discussion it is not of primary importance.

OBJECTIVE: I want the FLEXIBILITY to switch from multi-family to single-family. I have already devised plans for gas and water. Now I want to do the same for electrical.

I have the permit(s). I can have the inspector onsite for $55. I wanted to have a tentative plan in place first.

I called to upgrade my service from 100A to 200A for 1st floor. But after calculating AMPS for the entire house I do not believe 200A is enough. The 1st floor/meter/load center is the one I would like to be able to use as the source for the ENTIRE house if/when I don't have tenants on

2nd and 3rd floor. or if the new owner wants to make it SINGLE FAMILY.

Yesterday I did a complete breakdown of my amperage requirements based on a formula in Taunton's Wiring a House.

Floor #1: 119A

-General lighting 1920 sq. ft x 3 = 5760

-Kitchen 3000

-Disposal 900

-Stove 8000

-Dishwasher 1500

-Washer 1500

-Dryer 5000

-Hot Water Heater 4500 Total 30160-10000

AMPS Required

10000 (1st 10,000) 8064 40% of remainder (20160 X 40%) 10500 (heating based on 42' of baseboard heaters 42'x250) Grand Total: 28564/240V=119A

Floor #2: 93A Floor #3: 92A This is approximated.

It seems a little high because I am migrating AWAY from gas to electric due to predicted/continual price of gas.

It seems to me I will be better upgrading my service (floor #1) to 300A or 400A. This will allow some room to grow and why do it TWICE?

I currently have 3 meters with a single SE cable coming from the transformer on the utility pole into a box that houses the 3 meters with the individual SE cables for each of the 3 100A service panels.

Should I upgrade my service to 400A for first floor to cover all current/future needs?

How do I interconnect them? I think I need switches inbetween the meter and service panels but cannot find out how to set this up.

Thanks, Frank

Reply to
MASTERCHIEF
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Where I come from it is a major no-no to put a switch or anything between the metering and the main. Have you thought about adding your own CT based sub-metering? There are private-label metering schemes available that would even allow you to surcharge your tenants if it is legal in your area. You can use cat 5 wire etc to get remote metering, or set up the meters at each panel. Be your own utility on a small scale! The one brand that comes to mind is called "Emon-Demon". I think Seimans makes a set-up too.

Reply to
Long Ranger

Do u have a website for that? Sounds like it is over my head, as is the current project. Thanks, Frank

Reply to
MASTERCHIEF

I think this will be the easiest solution:

  1. Upgrade #1 to 400A
  2. When I want to run #2 and / or #3 off the 400A panel I will shut off the utility (won't be on anyway if there is no tenant) and remove the SE cable from the panel.
  3. I should then be able to wire it in such a manner to make it a subpanel of #1. I know code does not require a main breaker, but I could leave it in there I do believe. My feeder cable will come from the 400A panel and be wired to a 100A breaker. This will require some work since I cannot leave an unused wire in place when I am not using it. The only big question. When I rewire floors #2 and #3 I will be running ONE CABLE from the basement to subpanels on the 2nd and 3rd floors. When I go to single-family it will mean my two main panels (#2 and #3) become subpanels of #1. This means I will have TWO SUBPANELS in that configuration and I do not know if that will meet code. Frank
Reply to
MASTERCHIEF

It is as simple as placing a CT around the panel feeders, and connecting to a voltage source, I.E., a two pole breaker. It will take you longer to mount the instrument than to connect it.

Reply to
Long Ranger

Found this one with a search of "Sub Metering".

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For that matter, you could place ordinary utility socket style meters in the line, and just read them when you want. There are seven available on ebay right now for nearly nothing.

Reply to
Long Ranger

flexibility is going to cost you big time. Loosing the gas and installing a

400 amp panel is going to cost big time. (there is no such thing as a 300). I would start with the electric company. Where I live asking for a 400 amp panel automatically gets you a "demand" meter rate. No choice in the matter at all. Below 400 amp there are lots of choices for rates to keep your costs "reasonable". Will the utility even serve you with 400 amps? I had a friend that wanted one, the utility wanted $17000.00 up front to bring in new lines for his service. He passed.

We use what is called "meter and transocket" set up

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The standing cans in the back with the "arms". Arms are extended up to 6 disconnects.

I do not know if this setup is even legal where you live.

I counsel you to get a local contractor to help with the design and load calculations. There is a diversity that can be applied with more than one kitchen load. I doubt it will get you below 200 amps however. Metering will be up to you once the service is set. Read a meter or not when the tenant is there or not.

Have fun

Reply to
SQLit

Square D has offered a 300 amp residential service since about 1980.

Reply to
Long Ranger

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