putting GFI breakers on ungrounded circuits

I posted a seperate topic about relocating my meter and breaker box. Here is a seperate question. I have a few ungrounded circuits in my house. The cables of these circuits from my breaker box is 14/2 ungrounded. One electrician suggested putting GFI breakers on these circuits when I upgrade my panel. This will provide protection on these ungrounded circuits, rather than opening up all the walls and running new grounded circuits. I was wondering if anyone has done this before and is it safe?

Reply to
MikePier
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I think this is an NEC approved method for dealing with this kind of problem. I believe there are some labeling requirements.

Reply to
Bob Peterson

Yes, in fact it is even recommended by the NEC when a ground wire is not available. The recepticles on such a circuit can even have the standard three-prong outlets with the ground-wire unconnected. AFAIK, this is the

*only* situation where the third prong can be left disconnected and still comply with NEC.

But to be fully compliant with the NEC, all such outlets must be labeled that they are protected by a GFCI and have are ungrounded. Many GFCI packages come with a sheet of self-adhesive stickers just for this purpose.

daestrom

Reply to
daestrom

Good question - GFCI circuit breakers verses GFCI receptacles. The NEC has some detailed rules for replacing receptacles on two wire circuits that have no equipment ground. Section 406.3(c) also allows a GFCI breaker to be used.

Last summer I replaced all the two wire receptacles for a relative so they could sell their house. The bank required an inspection before the house could be sold. All the two wire receptacles and grounding type receptacles that had no grounding conductor had to be replaced with GFCI protected receptacles and properly labeled. The labels required by the NEC came with the GFCI receptacles. In this case replacing nongrounding type receptacles with nongrounding type receptacles as allowed in 406.3(3)(a) was not allowed by the bank. The labels came with the GFCI receptacles and are small stick on that mount on the cover plate. I could have fed through a GFCI receptacle to downstream grounding types and labeled per the NEC as required in 406.3(c) , but the price of GFCI receptacles runs about $13 at Home Depot so I replaced every receptacle in the house with GFCI's just to be sure. Circuit breakers are more expensive but fewer are required. I chose GFCI receptacles because I think they are safer, and the panel was located where there wasn't sufficient work space (that the bank let go by.)

The code section that covers this follows:

2002 and 2005 NEC Section 406.3 (D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 406.3(D)(1), (2), and (3) as applicable.

(1) Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure or a grounding conductor is installed in accordance with 250.130(C), grounding-type receptacles shall be used and shall be connected to the grounding conductor in accordance with 406.3(C) or

250.130(C).

(2) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

(3) Nongrounding-Type Receptacles. Where grounding means does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (a), (b), or (c). (a) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another nongrounding-type receptacle(s). (b) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground." An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.

(c) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground." An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.

Reply to
Gerald Newton

I should add that the boxes for the old two wire receptacles were not large enough for GFCI receptacles so I had to use surface extensions. I did this by installing wiremold extension boxes and with a chase nipple in the back plate. Many of the old wires were too short requiring pigtail splices. Old wiring installed by non electrician homeowners is always a challenge. Homeowners doing their own work makes it difficult for electricians to get any kind of compliance on rework. That is why qualified electricians should be hired to do electrical work.

Reply to
Gerald Newton

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