window frame zapping

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:53:37 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
| On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:00:04 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cs.ubc.ca (Dave
| Martindale) wrote: | |>Vancouver Island is fed power from the main BC grid via a HVDC submarine |>cable. | | | I think the Bonneville to LA DC intertie ("Celilo link") is Earth | return. | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie | | I am not sure but The return on DC links is Earth in most cases I have | seen. | | It makes sense. Cost and operation wise.
It can also introduce the possibility of getting free electricity from the ground for people in or near the path.
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| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
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On 17 Mar 2008 18:10:37 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system.
And NO, it is NOT easy to do.
If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system.
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:58:19 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
| I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current | off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system. | | And NO, it is NOT easy to do.
Maybe. Maybe not.
| If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would | likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system.
Get caught how? It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. There already is a natural source of electricity to be acquired from earth. There is no reason anyone should be prohibited from gathering it. It may not be huge or consistent. And it may well have complications at times (like when storms pass over). But it is doable (I know someone who harvested enough to light some bulbs until a storm melted his conductors and he gave up).
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On 17 Mar 2008 20:27:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

WRONG. Any power line passes that cross private property get rights to do so, and it is usually before the property gets bought by anyone.
Not only that, but they have the right to monitor ALL of their towers, and ALL of the space under where their lines pass.

Huh? What? electrostatic? No work can be done there.

Gathering?

It may be NIL 99.9999% of the time too.

Like I said, one MAY be able to gain an "extraction" from an AC distribution line, but you won't be tapping off a DC link any time soon.
The day you decide to do so, I want to watch... from a distance... with a video camera rolling.
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:03:58 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
| On 17 Mar 2008 20:27:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:58:19 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
|> |>| I can safely venture a guess that there are ZERO folks tapping current |>| off a DC feed ANYWHERE in ANY system. |>| |>| And NO, it is NOT easy to do. |> |>Maybe. Maybe not. |> |> |>| If it were AC, MAYBE one could glean a few Watts out of it, but would |>| likely also get caught due to proximity to the distribution system. |> |>Get caught how? It's PRIVATE PROPERTY. | | WRONG. Any power line passes that cross private property get rights to do | so, and it is usually before the property gets bought by anyone. | | Not only that, but they have the right to monitor ALL of their towers, | and ALL of the space under where their lines pass.
However, they do NOT get a right to deprive the owner from any NATURAL rights. An overhead AC power line does not deprive the owner from the right to get ground power. But an overhead DCGR power line would do so *IF* the power company tries to enforce against the owner extracting ground currents that normally exist ANYWHERE.
I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you know of a case where this has been tested which involves DC with ground return (not AC) and the owner extracting GROUND currents (not from the lines or the magnetic fields), then let me know.
|> There already is a natural source |>of electricity to be acquired from earth. | | Huh? What? electrostatic? No work can be done there.
I did not say electrostatic. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? Is making up stuff people don't say your typical practice?
|> There is no reason anyone should |>be prohibited from gathering it. | | Gathering?
Collecting, harvesting, whatever.
|> It may not be huge or consistent. | | It may be NIL 99.9999% of the time too.
I'll disregard this comment because it seems you don't even know what I was talking about.
|> And |>it may well have complications at times (like when storms pass over). But |>it is doable (I know someone who harvested enough to light some bulbs until |>a storm melted his conductors and he gave up). | | Like I said, one MAY be able to gain an "extraction" from an AC | distribution line, but you won't be tapping off a DC link any time soon.
Then if you were the CEO of the electric transmission company running a DC line involving a ground return, and I, a landower near the transmission line, were extracting currents in the ground by means of deep electrodes at two far ends of my land, you would not mind?
| The day you decide to do so, I want to watch... from a distance... with | a video camera rolling.
You'll be bored.
How much power do you really think can come from the ground even with a DCGR line running nearby?
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On 18 Mar 2008 02:24:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it.
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:11:03 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
| On 18 Mar 2008 02:24:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you |>know of a case | | | I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky | insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it.
I really don't know how much of the ground current would be added to from the power line. But I do know that at times the natural ground current that can be had from a lot the size of a football field, as a thunderstorm passes over, is way more than a few watts. On a calm day there is not much.
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On 19 Mar 2008 05:26:27 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

If it was feasible, it would already be an "alternative power source".
Since I have yet to see a single installation of such a "power" device, I doubt that the numbers you relate are as valid as some of the other things you do know about.
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:50:15 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
| On 19 Mar 2008 05:26:27 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:11:03 -0700 StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
|>| |>|>I would presume this has never been tested in a court of law. If you |>|>know of a case |>| |>| |>| I doubt that you could garner more than a few Watts. Their leaky |>| insulators lose more than that. I don't think they are worried about it. |> |>I really don't know how much of the ground current would be added to from |>the power line. But I do know that at times the natural ground current |>that can be had from a lot the size of a football field, as a thunderstorm |>passes over, is way more than a few watts. On a calm day there is not much. | | | If it was feasible, it would already be an "alternative power source".
It has limited feasibility. It requires good soil, a large land area, preferrably flat. The amount of power you can get varies greatly from enough to light a couple bulbs sometimes to enough to melt a 250 kcmil wire if left in a shorted state (when a strong storm line passes by). It would be less feasible than wind power in most places. It would require the ability to convert a very wide voltage range and a lot of storage. It's by no means something that will catch on. But it is something a few people could do.
| Since I have yet to see a single installation of such a "power" device, | I doubt that the numbers you relate are as valid as some of the other | things you do know about.
I've seen one such installation. It was experimental.
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