Any more secure options for replacing mechanical dial locks on old safes?

There are plenty of safes, such as this one:

formatting link

They are sturdy and high quality, but the locks are obsolete and can be lockpicked by knowledgeable individuals.

My question is, are there replacement locks that can be installed, perhaps digital or some such, that are not prone to being lockpicked?

i
Reply to
Ignoramus27831
Loading thread data ...

You can make your Mosler safe un-lock-pickable with two easy steps: close the door, then weld it shut.

Or, if that doesn't make my point, allow me to relate a story that my dad told me, about a conversation he had with a friend. His friend (chief of the local fire department) mentioned that he was going to change his doors over to metal doors, with metal frames. So Father asked him what he was more afraid of: a home invasion, or being trapped inside of a burning house with sturdy doors that the fire department couldn't kick in?

He kept his doors.

And, sometimes, you _want_ a lock that can be picked.

Reply to
Tim Wescott

Add to that:

And WTF is going to pick them?

When I got my house, it came with a built-in Schwab safe -- locked, of course. I called MANY a safe-specializing locksmith, and NONE of them would "pick" the safe, they all were going to drill it -- for BIG effing bucks.

After I sent a notarized deed -- and my DNA -- to Schwab, they gave me the "factory" combination, which is almost always changed. Indeed mine was, but thru some effing miracle, a couple of the digits were close to theirs, and I stumbled upon the other two.... unbelievable..... and there went all my good luck for the rest of my miserable effing life.... LOL

I was then able to unscrew the inside cover, and retrieve the true combination from the dials themselves. And, of course, nothing worthwhile in it.... some old house ownership papers, nada mas.

But, the point is, this safe-cracking shit is, apparently, all TV. Ig perhaps watches too much of it? James Caan, in Thief?? lol Not a bad movie, tho... helps to like Caan, tho, altho that's really not necessary, as he likes himself waaaaaay much.

Reply to
Existential Angst

Ignoramus27831 wrote in news:Sd- dnRN8CMT9IJnMnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

As EA pointed out, "cracking" a safe dial is TV nonsense. I went to a lecture by a professional safe cracker. He started out working for the Waltham Watch company eons ago, and became an expert on their vault time locks. People wouldn't maintain them, and occasionally he would have to open a vault when the lock acted up. That eventually turned into a full time career of dealing with safes & vaults that people couldn't open for one reason or another. Drilling is ther preferred technique for locks like in the photo you linked to. Big bank vaults? You go in through a wall.

Safes are not rated by whether they are "uncrackable" or not. They are rated in hours it would take to open them. If a really knowledgeable crook has time, they can bust into anything. Modern safes have all sorts of features to make life difficult, but nothing is impenetrable.

That said, all of the high security areas where I work are protected by electronic combination locks. You spin the dial to run a magneto that charges up a battery, and they have an LCD display. Totally uncrackable by conventional means, and with the display on top, nobody can see the combination. The bad news is that the dispays are dim, and the locks are fussy.

formatting link

A good mechanical dial lock with the numbers on top is probably adequate:

formatting link

Some older locks have a separate lever (usually in the middle of the dial) to drop the bar into the wheels. That theoretically makes them harder to crack by "feel", because the wheels spin freely until the combination is reached.

There may be a fair number of good mechanical locks floating around used because people are swithcing over to the electronic ones.

Doug White

Reply to
Doug White

There is a 1907 mosler cannonball safe in my basement, it's been there since the original owner built the house in the early 60's.

It is inoperative--he removed one of the hinge pins, thus permanently disabling it after he was robbed one evening during which time a gun was held to his wife's head as he struggled trying to remember the combination.

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

This one looks like a good combination lock (100 count dial, three numbers plus zero to open, *no* keyhole for lock picking.

And, they are typically designed so attempts to break in will lock them forever, leaving you the task of removing the safe from around the lock instead. :-)

Digital is vulnerable to power (or battery) failure. I would not trust it -- and would far prefer the good dial type combination locks.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

So they finally updated these things.

The ones with the strangely wide keyboard with a 1 in 5 chance of actually registering a keypress correctly were amazingly obnoxious. I recall only using the real combo if people were watching, and just prying open the doors they were attached to if nobody was looking as they were only there for show and tell to start with.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

If somebody really wants in in a hurry, they'll blow the door, no lock in the world will help with that. Have a Remington safe minus door from my granddad's gas station that that happened to. Was an in-the- floor job, a steel cube about 2' on a side and the door was like a cannon breech, had interrupted lugs and rotated. From what he said, the door was blown through the roof and ended up in the heating business across the street. Was really sore about that since there was like $15 in the safe and it cost hundreds to replace and fix everything else. The remains makes a good anvil. Flat on 4 sides anyway, the part facing the door is a little bulged.

Stan

Reply to
Stanley Schaefer

I don't have any idea how to pick a safe container. The ones I know had no keyways...

I always drilled and used a borescope. Modern containers use hardplate around the lock face to resist such.

The S&G 8400/8500 locks were quite resistant to most attacks. In both types, the gate is free of the wheels, and only drops when you have spun in all three numbers. So you can't feel for the combination at all.

With Delron wheels and a lead backplate, X-ray attacks were highly unlikely.

What's your threat model? Who are you protecting against?

Reply to
David Lesher

Or use the ole stethoscope, eh?? Sheeit, I cain't open a $2 combination padlock.... lol

XRAYS????? Hilarious.... Who'da thunk?? lol

Reply to
Existential Angst

Well, people at GSA responsible for setting standards for storing classified did; it's only fair to assume they did so because They did it to Us, or We did it to Them, at some point.

Reply to
David Lesher

For whatever reason, snipped-for-privacy@nrk.com

doesn't seem to be a valid email adress.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

formatting link
.

A host is a host from coast to snipped-for-privacy@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Well, I received 26 pieces of mail in the last 24 hours. YMMV.

Reply to
David Lesher

OK, lets skip subtle. In your signature box, you should use a carriage return, and a couple spaces, so that the email adress is not connected to all the other text. Try this instead:

A host is a host from coast to coast..... snipped-for-privacy@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

formatting link
.

Well, I received 26 pieces of mail in the last 24 hours. YMMV.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

`

Yep. So what?

It's a dot.sig; it's not responsible for your desires to do anything beyond reading it with your eyes.

Try typing it in and see what happens.

Reply to
David Lesher

What's the point of having a clickable email adress, which is useless because it's stuck to a bunch of other text? Just for grins and giggles, please click the URL in my signature box, and see how much good it does you.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus coast.................www.lds.org .

`

Yep. So what?

It's a dot.sig; it's not responsible for your desires to do anything beyond reading it with your eyes.

Try typing it in and see what happens.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

It was/is never designed to be "clickable" - that's just your bizzare fantasy. It's been as it is, is in my dot.sig block, for over 20 years, and will stay there. Read RFC 1036 and son-of-1036.

End of OT discussion.

Reply to
David Lesher

This makes sense. GSA classified container standards typically put a lot more emphasis on preventing *undetected* entry than preventing or delaying forced entry.

A crowbar attack will take less time and sophistication than an x-ray attack, but it will be rather obvious that the container has been compromised.

Reply to
Jay Hennigan

How do you blow the door OFF when the charge is on the outside? Particularly when flush mounted and concrete encased?

I can do it from the INSIDE..but not the outside.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

  1. Lie
  2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
  3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
  4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
  5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

There you go, interjecting logic into a discussion.....

Reply to
John B.

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.