Can I do it to Conduit?

[ ... ]

It worked fine. Of course I had to exit slrn and re-enter to get it to re-read the .slrnrc. (Hmm ... I wonder whether there is a command to do that?) Another one that I saw in the web page you (or somebody else) pointed to is one to change the default number of articles in a newsgroup before it asks whether you want to read a subset of the whole. That one also is not in the sample .slrnrc which came with the system. (It is part of the /opt/sfw which is built form the "Software Companion" DVD (used to be CD) of net source programs that someone has compiled for Solaris and added to the package.

Interesting. I wonder why the Software Companion version lacks that? And what I *really* want is to find the Troff source for the full documentation, so I don't have to fire up a web browser whenever I want to read about it. (Hard to carry the browser with me when I head to the john. :-)

I actually started with jove on a BBN C-70, which had a standard unix line editor, and BBN's text editor (for their e-mail mostly) but not a screen based editor like vi. So -- I got the source to jove (spotted mention of it in comp.unix.wizards which I got in digest form then) and compiled it on the system. The administrator of the system then installed it so others could use it too, since I did not have root privileges. Then I got my first unix system at home -- a Cosmos CMS-16/UNX (Motorola 68000 with v7 unix) which also did not have vi, so I compiled jove on it too. As a result, I've never really learned more about vi than what I need for editing jove's configuration files, and for recovering a system which won't boot fully.

But there are things in jove which I particularly like, such as the wrapper to call the system's spell(1) command (which I've modified to include a private dictionary) and the feature to automatically expand acronyms (which I use to automatically correct my most common typos and genuine misspellings. :-)

Yes -- I'm sure that all of that can be done in emacs, using the built-in lisp, but I already know how to use jove for this without having to learn enough lisp to write the equivalent. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols
Loading thread data ...

I always like to thanks folks who take their good and valuable time to help me with my problems. I am a little late this time.

Thank you all for some good input.

j/b

Reply to
jusme

No problem. We thought you needed a little time to try out all the suggestions. ;-)

Reply to
Al Patrick

Hah., I am old and don't have that much time.

Reply to
jusme

Reply to
Al Patrick

If you'd like the more complete slrnrc sample, let me know.

[...]

Same here. The whole idea that I have to perform

4 keystrokes to get out and save what I'm working on seems counter to the usual unix command line philosophy of minimalism.

And now to go *really* OT, I've just had the wonderfully fun time of recovering data (news spool among other things) from a ufs2 drive that started throwing a bunch of DMA errors, and wouldn't even fsck. Eventually I rewrote the partition table and mounted with -rf. I think I've finally managed to get everything that matters.

I wonder if zfs is as great as "they" say.

Reply to
Steve Ackman

I can probably get a more complete one by downloading the latest sources. Thanks.

:-) But then, for jove, ^X-^\ to save, followed by ^X-^C to exit adds up to perhaps six counting the hold-down of the CTRL key with each pair. :-)

Well ... I'm using it, and find it easy to recover from a damaged drive. (Actually -- from a drive which decides to become invisible on reboot.) I'm running it with raidz2 (double parity), so I could run quite a while with a failed drive, even without a hot spare ready to start when something goes down. To deal with the failed drive I simply unplug the bad one, plug in a normally formatted replacement, and type "zpool replace c5t11d0" (with no second drive argument it assumes that you are replacing the drive with another in the same slot), and it tells me that it is now "resilvering" the array, and in a few minutes all is happy again.

I have encountered a problem with trying to use amanda to back up the pseudo partitions -- but it may be because it has already backed them up with the parent partition (root). Just to be sure, I'm using a second script to clone each partition, back up the clone using gtar, and then destroy the clone. The clone protects me from changes during the backup operation.

All in all -- I've found zfs to be a lot easier to work with than previous RAID systems on Sun platforms.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

I see 8 keystrokes. It takes nano 3 to save and exit. ^O And yes, : is two keystrokes.

Wow. A really and truly member of "they." ;-) I guess in this context though, "they" has to consist of the subset of those using zfs on FreeBSD.

Sounds way too easy. ;-)

There isn't much of a track record for the FreeBSD port of zfs yet; like ~1 year. One of the pages I was reading indicates that all the Solaris features of zfs aren't available (yet) on FreeBSD zfs. Also, nothing in the Handbook AT ALL on zfs. I'd hate to be using Solaris docs, only to find a FreeBSD discrepancy at a crucial moment.

Reply to
Steve Ackman

...

It's straightforward (although a bit tedious) to define Jove macros and bind them to single keys, as described in sections

15.4 and 15.5 of "Jove Manual for UNIX Users". So a single keystroke can do as much as you like.

Using emacs rather than jove, I've got save-buffers-kill-emacs, save-buffer, replace-string, command-apropos, isearch-forward, goto-line, replace-regexp, query-replace-regexp, compile, etc bound to the F1-F12 keys.

-jiw

Reply to
James Waldby

Where do you get eight? I get that only if I release and re-press the control key for each of the four characters to be sent. I can actually hold the control down while all four of the others are pressed -- and there is no need for an after any part of that sequence.

Hmm ... *that* one I don't fit. I run OpenBSD for some purposes, but nothing which needs enough disk space to make running zfs worth while.

I wonder what pattern is used to represent the disks on a BSD flavor? Sun's Solaris, for quite a while, has been using /dev/{r}dsk/c.t.d.s. to specify a disk partition, where "c." specifies the controller (a Sun Blade [12]000 has three before you start shoveling in PCI cards -- "c0" is the internal which normally only talks to the boot DVD-ROM, and perhaps an optional installed tape drive. "c1" is the fibre channel -- two internal disks and some amazing number of possible external ones -- 120 with the housings which if have (if I had twelve housings instead of just the two which I have), and "c2" is the external fast-wide Ultra SCSI. Beyond that, you get all kinds of things when you start installing dual VHDCI connector controllers in the available PCI slots.

On the old SunOs 4.1.? it would have been /dev/{r}sd? instead, with you left to figure out which controller each was on by the number of disk designators skipped. OpenBSD is similar, except that it /dev/{r}wd? on the IDE buss on the old Sun Ultra-5 and Ultra-10 machines, and (IIRC) /dev/{r}sd? on the ones equipped with SCSI disks. I haven't checked to see what they call the fibre channel drives, since until the latest release (just now) they could not handle multiple CPUs on the UltraSPARC machines, and I did not want to slow one down to single CPU mode. :-)

If you care, I could send you either the raw man pages (zpool and zfs) or I could feed them through groff and send them to you as PDF files. The latter would eliminate problems with missing macro packages.

It will be interesting to see when OpenBSD adopts zfs.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

Yes -- depending on how many existing bindings you are willing to do away with. :-) Back when I admined at work, I had ^X-^\ (upper case version) defined to do the ^X-^\ followed by ^X-^C, and I taught the users who were using it for e-mail to use that instead of the separate save and then exit sequences so they would not send e-mail replies with no new text added. :-)

I've got some bindings in jove, including F7 as spell-buffer while in either usenet or e-mail editing. I forget what the other bindings are, as I seldom use them.

But I also have the /bin/spell script enhanced to pick up a private dictionary from the user's home directory, and the expand-acronyms feature defined to translate my most common misspellings and typos into proper English. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

Ah! Ok. I was thinking CTRL for each pair. Now that I fire it up and take a look, I see ^X-S-^X-^C on this version. Looks like 6 keystrokes.

Hmmm. Maybe not *that* sequence, but it seems to be a necessary part of this one. ^X-^C-Y-

FreeBSD uses /dev/ad0s1a for first partition of first slice of first disk on first IDE controller... SCSI is sd, and IDE CD is acd.

Thanks. Those, as well as zdb, are included in the base system of FreeBSD 7.0... albeit with a "foreign" footer:

SunOS 5.11 14 Nov 2006 zpool(1M)

From

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To help users to get used to ZFS easily and be able to try all those nifty features we need decent documentation. It would be best to have a chapter about ZFS in FreeBSD's handbook. The entire ZFS functionality available in Solaris is described in ZFS Administration Guide, but there are differences between Solaris and FreeBSD version. There is some FreeBSD-specific functionality, some functionality is not supported and some bits around ZFS needs to be documented (like rc.d/zfs script, root on ZFS configuration, etc.). This is very important task and it has to be done before 7.0-RELEASE.

Needless to say, this "very important task" didn't get done before 7.0-RELEASE.

I guess it's not surprising that OSX seems to have had it as long as FreeBSD.

formatting link

Reply to
Steve Ackman

I get five, because I don't need to release the control key between the two pairs -- and there is not the un-controlled 'S' in mine, but rather a controlled ''.

And many versions of jove have the '^' instead of '^S' because some common terminals, like vt100s, automatically use '^S' and '^Q' for flow control over modem connections, which could introduce problems if you hit '^X' just before the terminal needed some breathing space, and sent its own '^S'. With '^S' replaced by '^' there is no such problem.

Granted -- not too many people use stand-alone terminals these days, but I still use them as consoles to servers.

Well ... you should expect to be slowed down to think if you exit an editor without saving the buffer. :-)

[ ... ]

O.K.

[ ... ]

Hmm ... I didn't even know about zdb -- even though the man page is there. But -- it is not shown in the "SEE ALSO" links in the other two man pages. I guess that they really mean the following:

====================================================================== The zdb command is used by support engineers to diagnose failures and gather statistics. Since the ZFS file system is always consistent on disk and is self-repairing, zdb should only be run under the direction by a support engineer. ======================================================================

Hmm ... for the latest official version of Solaris, instead of the free for the download open source version.

[ ... ]

:-)

Interesting to see the general focus for a proposed use for all of that space. :-)

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

Bah! I bet you think "Are you sure?" is a good idea after 'rm -rf *' :-)

I only mentioned it because it came up with man -k zfs

Heading back in the general direction of the subject line...

Welded a 1/2" IP nipple 4" long to a 2x2x1/8 angle. Drilled a couple of holes in the angle 2-3/4" on center so it would bolt onto some pre-existing holes in the back of the lawn tractor. (Pipe is below angle)

Turned down the end of a piece of rebar and drilled an 1/8" hole through the end. Welded a shoulder to the other end, and ran it through the pipe. So at this point, there's a .400" shaft sticking out the pipe about an inch, ready to receive the stripped down "backwards facing" front tine rototiller. Did one row with it as a test, and it's WAY easier this way than the front mount I tried last year.

On second thought, I may have to dig the camera out tomorrow...

Reply to
Steve Ackman

:-)

How about after "rm -rf /" :-)

But if such a feature *is* present, it should be c DEL *X.*

expect DEL *.*

except that since it was not literally "*.*", it did not feel that it was reasonable to ask "Are you sure?". So -- I blew away all of the files which were in that directory. Luckily, the things which were blown away were fairly easy to recover.

I see that it does in Solaris too -- but since I expected the "SEE ALSO" links to cover everything that I needed to know, I didn't bother doing the "man -k zfs". :-)

BTW -- if you are interested, there is a ZFS admin guide downloadable from Sun's site. It is 180 pages long.

-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 1270170 May 8 2007 817-2271.pdf

I've got it feeding through the duplex laser printer as I type.

You can do *that*? :-)

Please do.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

I've actually used that intentionally. Didn't want no steenkin' cautionary prompt. Then again, I did do a 'rm -rf *' once when I wasn't in the directory I thought I was. You know, one of those quarter-to-dawn moments A caution wouldn't have done any good, I'd still have just hit 'y'.

Agreed.

OH! Now that it's quoted, I see the asterisks. I was going to ask what "DEL X." meant. (Slrn was treating the double asterisks as emphasis delimiters, and I wasn't connecting the color change with invisible characters)

That's what I'd have expected too.

Is that the same as this one?

formatting link
I've grabbed that one... guess I'll get to it in my "spare" time.

It's been way too nice around here the last few days to spend much time inside. I was looking at gallery2 in the wee hours, but it appears to have way too many dependencies for what I want to do, so for now...

Ready to go

316K
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Tough to get a good angle 198K
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Better "angle" 2.4K
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My helper 139K
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Dark meat anyone? 64K
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Reply to
Steve Ackman

Hmm ... when slrn uses them as emphasis delimiters for me, it shifts the color of everything including the delimiters.

From any sane OS. :-)

Hmm ... sort of. The one you pointed to is a year and a month newer than the one which I had -- as well as a bit larger.

-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 1449050 Mar 24 11:57 zfsadmin.pdf

It is now printing in duplex mode, and hopefully will be finished before the next line of thunderstorms reach here. :-) Then it will be time to comb punch and bind the new copy and toss the older one -- unless it is

*too* new for the version which I am running. Looks as though it is, the "cache" disk option to zpool is newer than what I have. [ ... ]

84 F yesterday, 60 F today with lots of rain and thunder.

O.K.

Yep -- until I know what I'm seeing, it is difficult to understand.

Yep. Fig isn't it?

Fun. And obviously not a LCD monitor. :-)

I would have to chase them down first. :-) And I don't own a shotgun. Other things would probably do too much damage to the meat.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

I remember when the first IBM PC/XT's were produced. We (corporate tech) bought

100 and determined my office was a prime site. I had a $20K home computer at at the time and was consulting in machine and assembly code.

I set it up and was assigned to determine what software to buy and what printer.

Went to a national sales conference with our (then) Office Manager/Sr. secretary. She was a few years from retirement, but was determined to give it a go.

She followed the instructions by step. Power on the computer Insert a blank floppy (5 1/4" remember them ?) (I used 8" at home) and type format

The command was for the PC, not XT (hard disk). The hard disk was formated.

I got a call - and expected different - but it was ok. Just rebuild the disk.

I renamed the exe and created a bat file that forced checking for proper format. Then it ran the new file name with the arguments.

Such is life - the software was enhanced PC software that added a hard disk. A PC had two floppies and cpu memory.

The printer I chose was the NEC spin term. Not the Qume like I had at home.

Those were early 80 experiences and will be with me for years to come.

Martin

Mart> >> >>> In , on 16 Apr 2008

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----

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The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups

---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

Bah!

If any other company had brought out that POS, we'd all be running CP/M.

I had a 10 MgHz Kaypro at that time. Blew the drive doors off of anything IBM built.

Reply to
cavelamb himself

I should have said that nano made the asterisks visible. Exit the editor back to slrn, and they're gone again, regardless of whether the line begins with a >.

I have this in .slrnrc ...

% If non-zero, interprete _this_ as underlined text and *that* as % bold text using underlinetext and boldtext colors, resp. % If set to 1, do not write _ and * characters. % If set to 2, write _ and * with spaces. % Otherwise, if non-zero, write _ and * characters. set emphasized_text_mode 3

... which seems like it should do the same as yours. slrn in Debian seems to be behaving as if I have it set to 1. In FreeBSD, the setting is the same, yet the asterisks are visible. Strange. Debian must have made some sort of "improvement" that broke this.

I sorta figured that, but number rather than a name left me in doubt.

Man, you must go through a LOT of paper. I actually prefer reading on screen rather than deadtree.

Nice for April normally means 60ish here. You may have noticed from the photos that there was still snow on the ground the 8th. Actually there's still a bunch of snow in the Home Depot parking lot today where they piled it up.

It actually hit 77 yesterday, and 72 so far today. Hard to refrain from planting more than peas and broccoli.

xfig, yeah. If I can't draw it in xfig, I don't need to draw it. ;-)

formatting link

I can move her paw to the top of the monitor a dozen times before she finally gets the hint and either repositions herself, or leaves. Often as not, she gets up, turns around, and then it's her tail I have to keep moving.

They're very accustomed to vehicles. I bet you could drive by and snatch one through an open window. If you didn't mind leaving tire tracks across someone's lawn. ;-)

Reply to
Steve Ackman

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