I was down at my local hardware / lawnmower shop getting a new chain for my Stihl.
(It was a cold winter, I thought I'd get a jump on the wood pile.)
They had these signs warning of the damage E10 ethanol fuels do to 2-cycle engines.
They wanted to sell me "special" ethanol free fuel at a huge markup.
First is this really a problem? I've been running my Stihl for years with basically no maintenance.
(The only thing I do is to run it dry at the end of my wood cutting season, so it doesn't sit all winter with gas in it.)
If it is a problem then why not just get ethanol free fuel at a gas station.
(there are a several in my area.)
Wondering what y'all do?
Thanks
George H.
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:25:13 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
I have been told that the ethanol is bad for the carbs on small
engines. All my modern small engine powered devices came with warnings
to not use fuel with more than 10% ethanol. The Honda powered stuff
have stickers with this warning. I was talking to the woman at the
local tool rental place and she told me that they were having all
sorts of small engine powered equipment problems until they switched
to ethanol free fuel. They tried Sta-Bil first and it helped a bit but
since they changed to ethanol free fuel and require customers to also
use this fuel their fuel companent related problems have drastically
decreased. Ethanol free fuel is available here on South Whidbey Island
for about 25 cents more per gallon. Since I started using the stuff
about a year ago I am also having way fewer fuel related problems. One
weed whacker that I have would experience clogging of the main fuel
passage in the carb. It would only idle. Pulling on the throttle would
cause it to lean out and die. Pulling the carb apart I could see, with
a magnifier, brownish crud in the fuel passage. Since changing fuels
the carb has been working properly.
Eric
You can take the un-gasoline, pour it into a transparent container,
and add water. Let it sit. The water & alcohol will bond, and sink
to the bottom. Carefully suck off the gas on top.
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"David Lesher" wrote in message
You can take the un-gasoline, pour it into a transparent container,
and add water. Let it sit. The water & alcohol will bond, and sink
to the bottom. Carefully suck off the gas on top.
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When gasoline is shipped, it's stored in tanks that hold 2-4
million gallons. (But the industry uses barrels [42 gal].)
The gasoline is left to sit for days, and then the operator goes
to the valve on the lowest part of the tank floor, and drains
off the water. Sometimes there is an inch, sometimes far more.
(On a 120 ft dia tank, every inch is about 7,000 gallons.) At
later stages of delivery/storage, again water is drained off.
The methonal must be injected at the tank loading point, because
otherwise it would absorbing water as fast as it could. I've
not been in the pipeline business for decades, but when I was,
that was the SOP.
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The startup checklist for the multifuel truck I drove in the Army
included draining the water separators. When I learned to preflight a
Cessna the instructor carried a fuel sampler tube like this to check
for water in gas drained from the wing tank.
http://www.lakeandair.com/Fuel-Sampler-p/1920.htm
jsw
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:25:13 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
My circa 1987 Stihl doesn't care. I don't drain it, run it dry, or use
Stabil, and it always starts with a couple pulls. It's not unusual for
it to sit idle for 6 months.
On the other hand, my little Yamaha inverter generator won't tolerate
sitting with fuel in the carb for more than a few months. But it's a
tiny 4-stroke.
Your Stihl will work fine on ethanol blends. Mine does.
And I've been using ethanol blends in my Husquavarna
since the late 70's and the only issue was replacing
the rubber fuel line going into the carburetor.
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Good to know, Thanks.
It might be good for those engines that can burn "most anything"
to advertise that fact.
George H.
=========================================================================Hi George,
I just stopped in to see if my cross-posted reply to rangersucks ever got
through, and here I run into one of my favorite subjects... Sorry for the
messy posting but I don't have a newsreader anymore and I have no reason to
get one. This is a one-shot.
I can't stick around to get into this, but you seem to be genuinely
interested, so here are some facts that may help or confuse you, depending
on which way you tilt:
Ethanol will not gum up a carb or an engine. But they often mix it with
low-grade gasoline (under 91 octane, among other, bigger issues) and that
gas *can* crap your engine. It does seem more prone to varnishing the carb
jets, but that isn't because of the ethanol.
Ethanol will not do damage to a carburetor, large or small. *Methanol* will
do damage to aluminum or zinc (or brass, I think) if it's left in the
carburetor bowl too long. Race cars that burn methanol generally drain the
carbs, and often the tank, between races. The ethanol-damage myth probably
is a carryover from admonitions about methanol, dating back to the 1930s.
Ethanol *will* eat some kinds of gaskets. I got little bits of damaged
O-rings in my lawnmower carb soon after they started with the ethanol in
pump gas. I had to change gaskets and blast the carb with carb cleaner every
season for a couple of years, until I learned what was happening and sought
come ethanol-resistant gaskets. Newer ones seem to have solved this.
Obviously, the material in automobile gaskets is immune now.
The MIT report on efficiency with ethanol was misrepresented in the posts
here. I read all 61 pages of it, and the story is that up to 20% or so
ethanol will allow enough BMEP from boosted compression to increase
efficiency in a high-speed highway cycle, with long runs above 60 mph and
peak over 80 mph, if you are comparing a very small turbo engine with a much
larger normally-aspirated one. That engine cycle is not used in EPA
city/highway cycle comparisons. In normal driving, the MIT report says,
there is almost no difference -- and required boost can be achieved with
spark retardation that is so low it has almost no effect on performance. At
some point, the lines of volume efficiency cross, where the lower caloric
content of ethanol is compensated by the very high turbo boost that ethanol
allows. The report is worth reading.
FWIW, I read SAE engine-research reports at least once or twice a month.
That's where most of my info comes from.
Happy motoring...
Ed Huntress
I have been told in the past that ethanol was added to low grade
gasoline in order to make it suitable to burn in cars. And maybe
that's the difference. Lower grade gas that has added ethanol is
actually the culprit. When I use the ethanol free gas it is a higher
grade and so does not "gum up the works".
Eric
I have been told in the past that ethanol was added to low grade
gasoline in order to make it suitable to burn in cars. And maybe
that's the difference. Lower grade gas that has added ethanol is
actually the culprit. When I use the ethanol free gas it is a higher
grade and so does not "gum up the works".
Eric
====================================================================
I don't know which came first, but my (unresearched) understanding is that
they can use a lower-grade gasoline to mix with ethanol because the ethanol
boosts the effective octane rating. It also is conventional wisdom (again,
unresearched on my part) that low-octane gasoline may be low on detergents
and other additives.
Before it was required, there was some use of ethanol in gasoline to replace
the octane-boosting effect of tetraethyl lead, which was outlawed in 1995.
All gasoline sold as motor fuel in the US also has been required to contain
detergents since 1995 -- a result of previous maintenance problems with fuel
injectors. Whether they short-change the additive quality of gas they mix
with ethanol now or not, I can't confirm with any authoritative data.
Ed Huntress
It costs money (and energy) to increase octane.
In the refinery business, selling a fuel that has higher
octane than the minimum required is called an "octane giveaway"
It is difficult to determine the actual value of ethanol in
motor fuel. The large quantity used means higher octane
components of gasoline are less valuable than they would be
if there was no ethanol used. That means the gasoline without
ethanol (usually premium grade) is cheaper than it would be
if there were no ethanol used. And if there were no ethanol
the price difference between regular and premium would be
higher because refiners would be required to reform a lot more
of the hydrocarbons into higher octane components.
I've seen estimates on what it would cost to produce
all the octane necessary without ethanol that
range from 5 to 50 cents a gallon.
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http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id '&t
All gasoline vehicles can use E10. Currently only light-duty vehicles
with a model year 2001 or greater can use E15. Only "flex-fuel" vehicles
can use gasoline with an ethanol content greater than E15.
The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than "pure" gasoline,
although this varies depending on the amount of denaturant that is added
to the ethanol. Thus, vehicle fuel economy may decrease by up to 3.3%
when using E10.
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