Eco-fee - OT rant

I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that I am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight spectrum and more
lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.
On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!
Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I though we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
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Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional "impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer- quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)
Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment! Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.
LLoyd
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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Follow the money."
--
Snag
Learning keeps
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 20:02:34 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Just yesterday a guy in another newsgroup had one blow and start the ceiling on fire. They have electrolytics or a capacitor (I don't know much about electrical stuff) inside, one blew. Luckily he had a working fire alarm and a fire extinguisher handy and put it out before it spread through the attic.
If you take the plastic base apart you can see those componants as well as some pretty crappy soldering work. FWIW, they were a cheap Chinese made brand.
Newb
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On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have to replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on. I replaced it with a 13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23 months. 4 of the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the CFL, plus about 1/3 the wattage used.
I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take many to the recycling yard because they last so long.
David
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:14:37 -0500, "David R. Birch"

WTF? Why are you _knowingly_ wasting money and contributing to AGWK? Buy a motion sensor light and feed it a pair of 75W halogens every several years. Your pocketbook, your neighbors, greenies, and astronomers everywhere will thank you for it.

There isn't a mercury recycling plant within 250 miles of here. The one place (Medford, 27 miles each way) which accepts them charges four bucks apiece to recycle them. CFLs only cost me a buck apiece, and it would take ten bucks in gas to drive to the recycle station, so FTN! I recycle everything else, and I'll do fluors when they provide recycling locally.
-- Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
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On 10/10/2010 8:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I don't want motion sensors on a light 15 feet from the sidewalk and I want a light on all night. I looked at some solar sensors to turn it off during the day, but their wattage was only slightly less than the CFL and would probably shorten the life of the bulb.

We have it free locally and it's only a minor detour on the way home from work that I can take twice a year.
David
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:33:40 -0500, "David R. Birch"

Why not? They work up to 40'. The one on my driveway proves that. I had to lower the angle of its view so passing vehicles didn't set it off at 60' out. It stays on 1 minute and if I'm in the living room, I look out the window to see what set it off. Birds (cold-blooded, I don't get it) and cats seem to be the most likely culprits so far, but I did see a brightly lit skunk once.

Why?
The rating?

Why do you say that?

Cool. I wish there were one here.
-- Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
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On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:09:59 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

Part of what you don't get is that birds are warm-blooded.
Cheers! Rich
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wrote:

Oops, brain fart, corrected.
-- Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
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On 10/11/2010 8:09 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Security issues, I don't want a light that reacts to perimeter penetration, I don't want the BG to come close in the first place.

No clue, this was a while ago.

In my experience, lights left on last longer than lights turned on and off often.
David
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OTOH, David, I've got "globe" 40W CFLs in a bathroom mirror bar. They last (historically) roughly four months, and have to be replaced -- guess with WHAT, when we run out of the 12-pack of CFLs we bought for the fixture.
They're five times the cost of incandescents, and last 1/4 as long.
So... YMMV.
Yes... they're cheap Chinese crap, too. But then, find one that isn't.
LLoyd
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On 10/10/2010 8:54 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

I built a similar bar for my bathroom that originally used 3 $2 globe incandescents that lasted about 5-6 months. I put in $1 13 watt CFLs 3+ years ago and have had to replace one.

MMDV!
David
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:54:53 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Are they Feit brand? I had horrible luck with those, but they replaced them (free) when I bitched. I'm getting 3-5 years on the 23W (100W replacement) dimmable CFLs from China, ULA brand. $2/ea delivered via eBay in '06.
And I'm just now starting (2 mos.) to use the Satco brand of 13W daylight (5000K) and cool white (4100K) types. The daylighters are nearly as bright as the 23W soft white dimmables, and I love that they do _not_ put out that amber glow crap which warm/soft-white and incans do. They're more compact, so they fit in the pole lamps better.
Oh, I'm getting a couple years or more out of the GE 23W CFLs, too.
In electricals, I won't buy Feit or Lights of America (Home Depot) any more, period.
-- Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman
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I don't know what brand they are, but I did buy them at the Home Despots.
LLoyd
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:52:19 -0700, Michael Koblic wrote:

It's the metastasizing cancer of the Church of Warmingism. Oh, wait - Climate Changeism. Oh, wait - Global Climate Disruption - who knows? They just know that if they can extract all of your money out of your pocketbook and pour it into theirs, that The World Will Be Saved.
They have The Faith, you see.
Thanks, Rich
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Who charged the fee? The store, the manufacturer, the local govt, the state govt, the federal govt? I have been fighting in my town with the environmental committee (a joke) and the DPW (a perhaps bigger joke) to put in place a proper program fro recycling fluorescent bulbs. There's no question that they are more energy effecient than incandecants, but without proper recycling, the're sort of like choosing your poison.
If that "eco-fee" was going towards a recycling program, I'd have no problem paying it, but I'd sure want to know about it. I went to a county-wide toxic waste collection event (a semi-annual affair around here). They were collecting literally tons of parially-used paint cans, insecticide containers and what have you, but there was only a small pile of fluorescent tubes. I expect that the rest of the tubes went out in people's garbage. To be effective, recycling has to be convenient and it has to be enforced.
In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.
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wrote:

1) The fee is charged by the provincial government. The recent changes in taxes in our province are quite revealing: The taxes on alcohol went down (our premier is an alcoholic). The taxes on using sports centres, safety equipment and few others went up. It is clear that our provincial government says one thing but means another. 2) Yes, lumen for lumen the CFLs are more energy efficient. However... 3) What is a total cost of this? How much does "proper recycling" cost? Are we going to see it in this economy? Are we going to see it in our community? 4) The addition of mercury to the environment is apparently significant in an area *not* served by a coal-burning power plant. 5) According to Wikipedia (I know!) there is actually an increase in greenhouse gas output associated with using CFLs in cold-climate regions. Something to do with having to make up the heat produced by the incandescent light bulbs by other heating sources. That study came from BC! 6) The longevity of CFLs is also contested: Some say that the light output of the CFL drops by as much as 40% over its life-time and the decrease is *exponential*. I for one am not taking chances: If the fixture took a 60W bulb before, I smack in a 23W CFL. Nobody has yet explained how this would be unsafe and if a 40% drop does occur, well, I am in the same ball park I was before. 7) Add to all of it the dangers of clean-up when breakage occurs, "unsafe modes of failure" (whatever that means, I gather some were actually causing house fires), inability to use them in certain applications and the fact that with eco fees the cost approaches 4 times that of incandescent bulb of similar luminescence I am not surprised that their sales dropped in 2007-2008. Not surprising the Euros are legislating.
People know when they are getting screwed.
An addendum to re-cycling: I have no problem with the concept. I was re-cycling when the word was not yet known. However: Until recently we took our recyclables to several collection points around town when we had enough to justify it. It was not a particularly onerous task except for he fact that the containers were seldom empty, usually overflowing. Then the city decided on a mandatory blue box program for which they started charging additional $50+. Thus my recycling cost went up drastically without affecting my practice in any significant way.
I, too, know when I am being screwed.
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
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?

Are you ready for smart meters and time-of-use rates ?
Best Regards Tom.
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are garbage police.
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