Harold was suggesting that a written opinion from the inspector would allow him to hold the inspector's feet to the fire. You seem to be saying that a written opinion will help to follow the inspector's interpretation and avoid misunderstandings. In other words you're cooperating with the inspector, Harold is preparing for a confrontation. Two very different different goals; yours is quite reasonable, I suspect Harold's will be counterproductive in most cases.
Ned Simmons
acquaintance
Your comments about my desire to hold feet to a fire are reasonably accurate, but only when an inspector with an attitude has already set the ground rules of holding feet to the fire. Again, I think I made that clear. Bear in mind I've never used this tactic, mainly because I've never found a need. As I stated, the inspectors I've encountered have bent over backwards to be helpful. That isn't to say that there aren't a few that may enjoy screwing a guy around when they deem it necessary. Dunno. One thing I will admit to is that the old wireman that told me about the tactic is likely to have just such encounters. He doesn't get along well with most people. I can't help but think that in his case he used the tactic on more than one occasion.
Harold
Inspector with an attitude, crusty old wireman with a chip on his shoulder--sounds like a self perpetuating pissing contest .
I looked up the bit on who has jurisdiction over appeals from the inspectors question because I have more than a passing interest in the issue. I serve (volunteer) on my town's Board of Appeals, where our ordinances were recently changed to give us jurisdiction over appeals from the plumbing inspector. I'm not looking forward to hearing these appeals and expect we'll defer to the inspector in most cases due at least somewhat to lack of expertise. The person making the appeal has a pretty high standard to meet. They not only have the burden of proof, but have to show the inspector acted "clearly contrary" to the town's ordinances. I think it's going to be very difficult for a lay person to make that argument to a board of non-experts.
I was curious about the administration of the NEC because the town has not adopted an electrical code (or building code, for that matter), but there have been rumblings. Looks like we're off the hook if the NEC is adopted without modification. But it also means there's no avenue of appeal outside the electrical inspector's office.
I didn't mean to imply that you should always bend over for an inspector who's being a jerk, just know what you're up against and pick your fights accordingly.
Ned Simmons
If you only knew! (Chuckle!) The guy in question, an ex friend from my school years, fits your description perfectly. Mind you, I don't know that he ever tried his "advice", because he's such a story teller that you can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Strangely, we were fairly close friends for roughly 45 years, but about 6 years ago his pushy attitude got in he way of our friendship and we no longer have a relationship.
The scenario you just described is the one whereby I would exercise my "friend's" method of having the rejection be documented. If nothing else, it would eliminate the "he said-- I said" kind of thing these issues have a way of becoming.
None of which should be much of a problem if the contractor and the inspector each understand code. Here in Washington, the State oversees electrical inspections through the department of Labor and Industries, and quite frankly, they are a tough bunch. It may be safe to say that they have more authority than the courts. Fortunately, as I've stated, I have had exceptional success while working with them.
While I may not have stated the way you just did, that is more or less what I had implied. I'm like a chain. You can drag me all over the world, but I don't push worth a damn. As long as inspectors (men or women, we've had both of them here in the county) treat me with respect, I get along with them just fine, and I return the favor. I am a strong subscriber to the saying that you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar, but if anyone comes into my life and sets ground rules that aren't reasonable, I make sure we play by the rules in both directions. If they want a pissing contest, I'll accommodate them.
Harold
A quick note - the written correction notice and/or recommendation can be used both ways, but I know of a third use for one. ALWAYS get all that stuff in writing on big jobs.
When you pass electrical rough on a tricky spot subject to interpretation, then the plumbing or HVAC inspector wants you to rip it all out and do it again his way... Because as sure as God made little green apples, you will rip it all out, rework it, and satisfy Inspector #2. And the first time Inspector #1 comes back for another visit and sees you changed the work he already approved he will be pissed.
If you have the written correction notice and then the written approval from Inspector #2 on hand, it should shut him up - if they want to snipe about it inter-office behind your back, that's fine - as long as they don't delay your project or cost you a lot of money redoing things.
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Sounds like the voice of experience!
You set up the type of scenario that I imagined. I fully agree, everything should be put in writing if a change is expected. I can't imagine any inspector being unwilling to do so unless he's screwing you around.
Harold
Not me personally, but contractors I've worked with and for. I don't plan to ever fall into that trap willingly - make 'em get out the book and show me where I'm wrong, and then I read farther along to the fine print in the second paragraph that allows it...
"I need you to change this one thing, and I'll pass your rough..."
(Danger! Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!) ;-P
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All "defects" MUST be in writing on the inspection report. If they are not, they do not exist and no enforcement is possible.
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