ERM supplies?

Look for Calgon in the supermarket. The washing soda will be next to it. Or you can use the Calgon. Calgon sold in the supermarket is mostly sodium carbonate. The industrial stuff is different.

You might try Walmart, if the local supermarket does not have it.

Dan

Try your local large 99c store. They often carry it.

Gunner

" We have all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare...Thanks to AOL and WebTv, we know this is not possible."

Wal-Mart probably has it, near the pool supplies. They do here, (MN) during the summer. If not, a pool supply place will. It's used for adjusting the pH of pools.

That makes sense. I was just in the wrong dept at HD.

Thanks all

D>

You can buy sodium carbonate or washing soda in large quantities (a pound or so) for swimming pool use. Any place that has swimming pool supplies should have it.

Jon

I went to HD and a supermarket in

At the supermarket. Arm and Hammer washing soda. In the laundry aisle.

Kevin Gallimore

Muriatic acid will dissolve the rust without hurting the steel. Pretty nasty stuff, though--I get an awful taste in my mouth just thinking about it. A 10:1 dilution with water might do it, or read the label.

Acid to the water!

Ken Grunke

Sorry, Ken, that's not true. If you leave steel in muriatic long enough, it's gone, assuming you don't consume the acid first. Muriatic acid will also attack particular spots on steel and eat them faster, assuming you leave your pieces in long enough. It's a lot smarter to use phosphoric acid if you're going to use an acid at all.

In the case of HCL (muriatic) it doesn't really matter if you pour the water into the acid, but it's a bad habit to acquire, especially if you work with sulfuric acid. I've seen it empty an evaporating dish when it finally decided to mix with the water.

Harold

This is not a strong argument for using the stuff, Harold--but of course you wouldn't leave a piece of steel in the acid longer than needed to dissolve the rust. I tried it today, just to make sure I wasn't a brick or two short of a load. A smidgen of straight-from-the-jug muriatic in a plastic cup dissolved a heavy coat of rust on a scrap piece of steel in 2-3 minutes, leaving a dull gray, but very clean surface. I'm definitely interested in alternatives, having some rust problems of my own in my shop. I just happened to have a partial gallon of muriatic around, and it's come in handy for small rust removal jobs.

Ken Grunke

I use electrolytic rust removal, (Rex, "washing soda" is Arm & Hammer All Natural Super Washing Soda," 'comes in a yellow 55-oz. box, in the laundry detergent section of most large supermarkets), muriatic acid, glacial acetic acid, or phosphoric acid, as appropriate. I've become a connoisseur of rust and filth ). I haven't tried the salt-and-vinegar approach.

I like the eletrolytic method. It leaves some black crud that brushes off easily with a stainless brush. So does phosphoric acid (although the black crud left by phosphoric, when it's used on thick rust, can be much harder to remove), which, according to the experts, does not attack the base metal. It's used by automobile body restorers for that reason. The black crud is another iron oxide, which the removal process converts from red rust, both of which I'll leave to the experts to describe.

Glacial acetic is something I picked up from an old-tool restorer. I've replaced it with electolytic, which works faster and better.

Muriatic is the fastest but it supposedly penetrates fine tracks left by the rust, and it's also alleged to leave NaCl (salt) in the pores if you try to neutralize it with baking soda. I haven't had that problem but I generally just rinse it with water these days, to avoid it. Muriatic does not leave the black crud. It is said to attack the base metal to a slight degree (nitric acid being the one that attacks it to an extreme degree).

For the elctrolytic method, I've used both the tank method and the brush method. I like the brush method better. It's described in the dropbox somewhere -- maybe someone can help you find it.

For the tank method I use just a dilute solution of washing soda. For the brush method I use the more complex formula described in the dropbox. I don't know if it's necessary -- I haven't tried the simple washing soda solution with the brush method -- but I will some day soon.

My power supply is a 4-amp automobile battery charger. It works great, both for the tank and for the brush. Sometimes I switch it to 6V to get the amperage down to where I want it.

Happy de-rusting.

-- Ed Huntress

Ok, I'll provide an argument for not using it. Hydrogen embrittlement. If your piece is hardened, that's one of the hazards. Easily eliminated by a prolonged roast at something like 375° F, though.

That rusts immediately. It removes rust all too well, Ken. That's not my argument. I used to buy the stuff by the drum when I refined precious metals. Everything in my lab was rusted that was made of iron, including stainless items. I ran a fume hood almost constantly, but it's next to impossible to escape the fumes. That's yet another argument against using hydrochloric (muriatic) acid.

It's quite forgiving as far as handling goes, so long as you keep it out of your lungs and eyes, but the fumes raise all kinds of hell with things. If one must use it, it's best done outside unless there's a decent fume hood available. I've had to do some serious rust removal on large items, doors, doorframes, etc. I've used phosphoric with super success, and the surface left behind is well prepared to receive paint and is rust resistant. Much better choice, but definitely shower.

Chuckle! That may very well be the source of your rust, even if you keep it well capped. If you have a safe place to store it outside, get it there as quickly as possible. I've had items destroyed that were stored with well capped gallon jugs of hydrochloric. It's next to impossible to contain the fumes. Currently I have several gallons of acids (nitric, hydrochloric and sulfuric) and keep them all outside. Luckily, I have enough acreage that it's possible to store it safely. There's no way in hell it's ever going to get stored inside the way I did when I was refining. I got tired of everything getting rusted.

Good luck!

Harold