Haute Couture machining

Something you enjoy doing for which there is some market so you can make a living at it. If you enjoy it you will eventually become good at it, and when your among the best at something for which there is a market, even a niche market, you'll always be able to make a living

-- possibly a very good living.

If you want more money than a decent living badly enough, you will get it one way or another. It may or may not make you happy, depending on how badly you want it and what you must compromise to get it. If/when there is a tradeoff between "happy" and "wealthy", go for happy. There's always some overlap both ways. It is more fun to be happy with adequate means than to be miserably wealthy.

There are no silver bullets.

This may sound incredibly simplistic, but it has worked well for me and for my several kids.

In the words of Bill Clinton "I feel yo' pain."

The problem is that the last 150-200 years have been an incredible historical anomaly, which naturally enough most people in the West have come to regard as the "natural order of things" and the way "its spous'ta to be."

Up until about 1800-1850, most of the world's high value trade, wealth and political-military power was concentrated in the Mid-East, India, and China, with northern Europe a peripheral market. Several factors including the industrial revolution, improvements in economic organizations such as joint stock companies, improvements in banking, and novel political organization, allowed the west to first dominate and then exploit these areas to a previously unheard of degree.

What we are seeing is simply a redistribution of capital and influence with the large countries, such as China and India, regaining their traditional position as "master in their own house."

Quite likely, with the erroneous assumption of innate and permanent western "superiority" by its policy makers and their obsession with imposing "free trade" and the "brave new world order," there will be considerable "pendulum effect" or overshoot.

In the specific items you raise, why would you expect that a domestically produced "boutique" product would be better than an imported one, particularly when intricate detail and hand metal work is involved.

Consider that up until about 1725, all high quality porcelain was produced in China, and even today many of the effects and techniques can only be produced by traditional methods in China. The finest [or at least most expensive] swords had Damascus blades imported from the mid-east and made in India. Silk was imported only from China.

Good luck on finding and keeping some sort of niche market, but unless you establish a brand name, and/or some sort of "trade secret" process that can't be "reverse engineered" (such as Ziljans cymbals), it will be a short duration advantage, and like the line in the movie, "what have you done for me lately."

Every time that a student asked me "what do you think I should major in" I have wished that I had a good answer for this situation, but I don't.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.

Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).

So whats the problem if your friend is making expensive architectual detail / prototypes for rich NYC moguls? Many shops in the city doing that, and oftentimes you can name your price.

Whats the problem with Bushwick section, I've worked there for the last 15 years.

Very interesting post. I basically agree with it. I believe the pendulum will eventually swing the American middle class' way again once labor in China and India catches up to ours (just as Japan's has). Then the playing field will level out again.

In the meantime, we've got a bit of an entitlement syndrome here in this country. People believe that the government owes them free health care and a job for life.

Is that in the Constitution?

Well, I'm not going to get into the health care issue, it's sorta like religion and I don't feel strongly enough about it either way.

The job issue though, I feel strongly about. Many of our fellow countrymen are in favor of competition as long as its them who ends up on top, but god forbid someone else competes better, than they want protectionism. Farmers are all good with exporting corn to Mexico but no way do we want Argentinian beef or Central American sugar.

Something wrong there. Whatever happened to "do unto others as you would unto yourself"?

============ It is, if 5 of the 9 geezers, with microscopic and x-ray vision better that Superman's, say it is.

In the event it may be cheaper to fund universal health care and some minimal level of income that pay for a violent and bloody revolution. Think downtown LA expanded nationwide. You pays your money and you takes your chances. The best alternative is to insure that enough gainful employment exists so that the people are working and paying for their own health care.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.

Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).

Well, along your last line, and in response to your earlier query, if a citizen is willing to work 40 hrs/week, the gov. *absolutely* owes him a job and/or an income, healthcare, and affordable roof/food. Esp. if said individual served in the army or previously paid taxes. And esp. if the gummint spent the previous 5 or 6 decades ripping off the taxpayer, lining Congress' and its Big Patrons' pockets. And esp. with the glaring/embarrassing disparity between the haves/have nots. And esp. with the stacked deck against the have nots. And esp..... well, I'll let you complete the list. Bush/Cheney/Rice et al need to be indentured.

When Hillary expands the court to 11, 7 of the 11 will find it in the 'Living' Constitution.

Wes

I have done my share of working for rich people on big houses- and I think the problem is the old "it shoulda been me" syndrome. I have not worked in NYC, although I have lots of friends that do, but I spent 10 years in LA, and saw the same thing over and over again- smart, young, creative kids move to town. get jobs working on stuff for jaded rich movie people. realize that most jaded rich movie people are basically bozos. start bitching and moaning, saying "I deserve to be driving that BMW. I deserve to be living in that multimillion dollar house in the hollywood hills. I am as smart as they are."

In turn, a percentage of these kids sell out, and become lawyers, or agents, or screenwriters, or directors, and make the same schlocky crap for huge dollars that they were complaining about a few short years ago.

If you dont love making the stuff from metal, why are you doing it? If you do love it, then realize you gotta work for rich people, cause thats where the money is, but its perfectly possible to do so without losing your dignity or virginity.

But this bitter attitude- its kinda silly. There are real jobs out there, even in NYC. You dont HAVE to make fancy stuff for rich people- but once you try working production in a factory for a while, you will realize that its actually a pretty easy, fun, and profitable way to make money. Every job is different, they actually understand the concept of paying for quality, and you learn a lot.

In other words, quit whining- kids in India are starving.

So, uh, what are YOU doing about the starving kids in India--and Africa, Cambodia, etc? NOT whining? Gee, DATS filling up their stomachs, I'm sure.

That very difficult subject aside, I understand your response, and it's not without some merit, altho you did misconstrue some crucial issues. My sheetmetal guy, and I, despise the rich, simply because of the corrupt machine behind wealth. And,

Next, yeah, love of metal is one thing. But the best way to ruin an avocation is to turn it into a vocation. And vocations, in the midst of philistinic phuckheads, sour the avocation all the more quickly.

Yeah, working for rich people beats digging ditches, and yeah, it is possible to do it without losing dignity (I don't quite grok the virginity part), but it can still be a soul-shriveling process. I know, in passing, a number of architects, high-end artisans, etc, and to a man, at least when they aren't in the middle of The Dance and dog & pony show, admit to a deep-seated resentment toward the whole process, an active (and undoubtedly justified) contempt for many of their patrons.

So yeah, you can blow it all off, blow me off, by "thinking positive", calling me a whiney embittered asshole, with a well-modulated voice-of-reason rationalization of it all.

With no easy resolution, because this fellatio-ing the rich bidniss is but the tip of a fundamentally corrupt philosophical/economic iceberg, the discussion of which is way beyond the scope of this ng.

Suffice it to say here, the difference between you'n'me is this:

You and your ilk, apparently, will fellatio the rich, swallow, and proclaim how great the wad was, and ask for seconds.

I will fellatio the same rich, but spit that shit out as soon as I can, wishing I had had the fukn balls to bite it off when I had the chance.

Mebbe one day I will.

Catch the diff?

Oh yeah, see my sig.

Well, not exactly.

I wouldnt blow em at all- instead, I used their money to buy tools, and learn how to do things, which in turn I use to make things I want to make, and still I manage to sell em and make money. My "thinking positive" consisted of actually refusing to do the jobs unless they paid my price, and let me have input into design, and treated me like a human being. I never had a problem finding more work. If you actually know how to do things, fix things, and make things, there is a market for you.

But asshole clients dont cause resentment- resentment is self- inflicted because you wont say "NO". Believe me, I know exactly the scene you are talking about- but I still say you got nobody to blame but yourself.

I would tend to agree with you that the system that allows idiots to get that rich has something wrong with it, but that is sure not a popular view on this forum.

I beg to differ.

People should be afforded an opportunity to have a job, but to guarantee a job invites the sort of complacency that strangles a society.

In Argentina, they've got a lot of that socialist corruption going on. For instance, the national phone company has a monopoly which employs untold thousands and yet it takes years to get a phone line installed. There was a ruckus about it in the press and the phone company issued an edict that required everyone report to work the following week. Everyone reported and there were far more workers than there were cubicles/desks, underscoring the rampant absenteeism in the cover of guaranteed employment.

I agree that the middle class is currently in a morass, but I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. The American middle class has a very high standard of living and it's not realistic to have it continue to grow unabated while other hard working people around the world are willing to put the nose to the grindstone for a fraction of the wage.

The rich, that's another story. Economic gains should be distributed more evenly. How to accomplish that? Not sure, but we've got a whacked sense of values in this culture. Who the f*ck needs a billion dollars? It's all ego run amock.

Poverty is a bitch. On the other hand..polls and studies show that the American Middle Class works harder and longer hours than most any other country in the developed nations. You are comparing those in the Turd World with those in the 1st. Apples and oranges.

So you do admit to being a socialist.

If I and my employer(or stockholders) agree on a payment or wage..what the f*ck business of yours is it?

Or are you claiming that "to each according to his needs, from those according to their abilities" is where you really want to go?

Gunner

"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide"

- James Burnham

=========== In a much smaller and more human scale world, where the employee and employer operationally have an independent contractor relationship, you are absolutely correct.

Your posts in the AMC/RCM newsgroups indicate that you enjoy exactly this relationship with your employers/customers.

The problem is that this is an exceedingly rare circumstance, and in the "negations" between a mega corporation (with companies, regiments, and divisions of compensation specialists, personnel specialists, lawyers, accounts, consultants, etc. on their payroll) and an individual looking for a job, its always "their way or the highway." Even if an "agreement" seems to have been reached, this is always subject to arbitrary unilateral modification such as lower wages, reduced benefits, increased hours with no overtime, etc.

It appears to be increasingly common that out-side recruiting firms and the Human Resources or Personnel department functionaries will make any sort of promise in order to meet their staffing goals and numbers, but when the new hire relocates and actually begins working, very few or none of the promises are true.

On the other hand, if we are discussing CEO pay, this is correct only if the stockholders are aware of how much the CEO is getting AND IF THE STOCKHOLDERS CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. From media reports it is evident that in many cases even the Board of Directors is unaware of the total CEO compensation, and in any case, the stockholders are powerless to prevent the looting of THEIR company.

Because the corporations and their employees are embedded in society, society has a large and legitimate interest in the levels of employee compensation.

Two examples are the funding for health care and education. People do not stop getting sick because they are poor, and because of the compulsory education laws they also send their children to school.

You, I, and the other taxpayers must make up any "shortfall" in funding. Indeed, the reduction in, or lack of, medical insurance is causing a more direct effect in many urban areas. Because of the enormous losses these generate, many hospitals are closing their emergency rooms. Thus in the case of accident or serious medical situation such as heart attack or stroke, even the wealthy with comprehensive medical coverage may be unable to obtain timely medical attention, and may pay with their life in addition to paying with their taxes, for a area's "low cost" labor.

On a more theoretical/macro economic basis, equality of income distribution is commonly measured or indicated by a Lorenz curve or distribution called the GINI index. The GINI values range between 0.00 indicating perfect equality, i.e. everyone get the same, to 1.00, indicating one person gets it all and ever one else gets nothing. The importance of this is that many of the "quality of life" metrics such as homicide/suicide, assault, and robbery, etc. rates have a high correlation with an area's GINI index.

World wide, countries and areas with similar GINI values tend to have the same social conditions. Thus if you think that Columbia has a desirable social order, all that is required is to increase your area's GINI to match Columbia's.

FWIW - The US has had the highest GINI index of any of the OECD countries for many years, and our lead is continuing to increase. :-(

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.

Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).

Bingo, George , that's why I pay 20,000 a year for the health ins (blue screw) for me & Wife, plus the tax for the "public" hospital.

Cheap labor my ass. Might be cheap for those that hire but not for them that has to make up the shortfall.

Then those companies deserve to die. If they are that f***ed up...where those that should be in charge are not....oops.

Gunner

"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide"

- James Burnham

I beg to differ.

People should be afforded an opportunity to have a job, but to guarantee a job invites the sort of complacency that strangles a society.

In Argentina, they've got a lot of that socialist corruption going on. For instance, the national phone company has a monopoly which employs untold thousands and yet it takes years to get a phone line installed. There was a ruckus about it in the press and the phone company issued an edict that required everyone report to work the following week. Everyone reported and there were far more workers than there were cubicles/desks, underscoring the rampant absenteeism in the cover of guaranteed employment.

I agree that the middle class is currently in a morass, but I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. The American middle class has a very high standard of living and it's not realistic to have it continue to grow unabated while other hard working people around the world are willing to put the nose to the grindstone for a fraction of the wage.

The rich, that's another story. Economic gains should be distributed more evenly. How to accomplish that? Not sure, but we've got a whacked sense of values in this culture. Who the f*ck needs a billion dollars? It's all ego run amock.

------------------------

I actually agree with virtually everything you just said. Altho I still stand by my original statement, I did not specify how it could be practically implemented, and in fact don't know if it can.

Mebbe what we're witnessing is the inevitable destruction of society, aided by the P4 chip. Which, reading between your lines, you might be implying as well. Indeed, ego run ashmuck.

I think Orwellian mind control is right around the corner. I think much of it is in place already, judging from the shit we eat from the Entertainment Trough. When completed, all this analysis will then be moot.

=============== This is called sociopathy. Haven't you noticed that most of our leaders have had multiple wives and their children seem have such difficulties?

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.

Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).

True enough, but when they go under, its like a big ship sinking and the undertow tends to pull everyone and everything in the area under with it.

Some sort of a corporate "death with dignity" act is needed, or at the very least a DNR.

CC will limp along for several more years, scamming their customers, employees, suppliers, and the taxpayers.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.

Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).