How would you do this?

"Chet" fired this volley in news:Mofsp.33600$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe08.iad:

"Flying blind" is kind of how wire fishing is done. It is a skill best learned by doing.

Generally, a wire is fished down the wall through a hole in the header. You may simplify your work by removing the old outlet box completely (a task in itself to remove it without either cutting the wires accidently or destroying the wall).

After removing the old box, you'll have a nice big "port" in the wall through which to work. The easiest way to fish that sort of "drop" is, in fact, to DROP a weighted line through the header down to the outlet hole, then hook it out and pull the wire through.

In this sort of retro-fit, you'll end up violating code, because you cannot staple the wire to the adjacent stud near the outlet box. The only way you can do that is to cut out a large enough section of drywall to do the stapling, then repair the wall. But if you're going to all that trouble, then the fishing job becomes a lot easier. The other alternative might be to run conduit down to the box. Current Code isn't something I keep close tabs on, since I haven't done any electrical wiring changes in about ten years, and then only for myself.

You're going to have to steel yourself to working in that pile of insulation... you have no choice. Take a small garden rake or a small pitchfork up there with you to remove insulation from the work area without compacting it.

LLoyd

The NEC allowed an exception for this case, at least up to 1990 when I got my license. As a practical matter I can't see that changing for retrofit outlet boxes. A pivoting mirror and a flashlight also helps for fishing in wires. Insulation and bridging are a bitch to work around.

One comment on the insulation: If it's blown-in, it's probably chopped fiberglass or cellulose. But if it's poured-in vermiculite, and if it was done before 1993 or so, watch out. There's a 70% chance that it contains a lot of asbestos -- as much as 5%. If it was poured in after that date, you're probably in the clear.

Thank heavens you can even get to the attic, and take a respirator and a shovel with you. Dig down to the ceiling, put your fan box with supports in, (don't be putting in a fan without a properly anchored and supported box - if you didn't have an attic, you'd need to put in a good sized hole in the ceiling and then patch it) and run the wire to the wall. If the wire is, in fact, above the wall framing, you can put in a junction box there and not even have to get into the walls. Then shovel the insulation back where it came from.

In general, it's good to be comfortable with drywall repairs if doing electrical in an already-built house. In this case, you might get away without it.

"ATP" wrote in news:4db18bfe$0$11329$ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net:

My favorite dodge for vertical runs is to drop down from above, using a length of small steel chain. Then I can snag it with a magnetic pick-up tool like one of these:

This has allowed me to quickly get a line pulled though a knockout in an existing box without much sweat.

Snaking through blown-in insulation is a royal pain. If it was blown in on top of existing batts of fiberglass, it may not be too bad. It helps a lot if you know the exact construction of the ceiling as to which way will be easiest. In my house, snaking crosswise to the ceiling joists is the way to go, because there are firring strips running crosswise under them. There is ancient rockwool insulation in bags sitting on top of the firring strips, so there is a small channel in the inside corners where you can snale a long run without much interference.

Doug White

Doug White

Guys, thanks for all the useful info! I'm going to try the outlet box removal trick, an access hole in the ceiling next to the wall to route the wire, and the installation of an 'Old Work' outlet box for fans... Still not sure how I'm going to deal with a 'waterfall' of loose insulation when I make both holes, especially the part about putting it back! If I pull it off, I'll post the process... Chet

C:

To drill your locating hole in the ceiling, tape a bag around your drill, avoiding engagement of plastic in moving elements. Drill the pilot hole, run a pluggins dowel or some signalizing rod up into the attic. Binder clip any hole in the bag closed.

Go to the attic. Clear your insulation away from the hole. Cut a door in a the right-sized box, tape a flapover the door and put said box over the hole to hold some insulation away. Think about taping the box to the ceiling to stop infiltration of debris underneath its margins.

Work through the cut out. Junk will fall into your bag below. With the barricade in place though, you won't get so much.

If you have a 7' snow drift of insulation, "joy" will probably not be the short word on your lips.

Tailor the above to you circumstances if it argues any possibility.

Good luck,

Edward Hennessey

There are special ceiling boxes designed to hold the weigh of a ceiling fan. A regular 'old work' box will pull out and the fan will hit the floor, or whatever is in it's path.

Pay me now, or pay me a lot more, later! :(