Ok I need a metalworking mill to drill accurate holes, mill wood and mill some metal. I figure why spend over ½ the cost on a drill press just to get little runout. There are things I would like to mill wood brass and steel. So I am thinking of this puppy
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it should do what I need and be affordable. My biggest question is what are the accessories I need. I know I need a vice and what one? I could see doing 6" long items. What do I need to fasten it to the table? I see the endmill holders but what ones to get there are different types. I can see milling slots removing stock making curved slots. Knight-Toolworks
Since the mill head doesn't tilt or nod as A Bridgeport or similar machine does, you'll probably be happiest with one of the tilting vises.
To fasten it to the table, you'll need T nuts, studs and hex nuts. Get one of the clamping sets, which will give you a variety of those plus some strap clamps and step blocks.
You could skip the tilting vise and get a plain (swiveling) vise, and one of the tilting tables to mount it on. The table would allow you to mount and tilt larger pieces than the vise would handle, and I'm guessing you'll want that. The negative with the tilting table is that it will reduce the maximum spindle to workpiece distance. Better go over the specs and see if your work will fit.
End mills can be held in end mill holders or in collets. The spindle is an R-8, and they make both for it. Sizes will depend on the end mill shanks - take a look at MSC or one of the other metalworking suppliers (or Grizzly) and figure out what size end mills you are most likely to be using.
The spindle speed is slow by woodworking standards, but as long as you're not trying to hit production speeds you should be fine. Stick with the 2-flute end mills, and try some of the high helix ones designed for aluminum.
Could you please avoid using characters not directly on keycaps on your computer? Your '1/2' above shows up as '\275' in my editor, because it is an extended ASCII character -- not part of the basic standard, and treated differently on different systems. I had to go back to the article before I started typing, because I was not sure whether you had said '1/2' or '3/4', both of which would show up somewhat the same in my editor.
Hmm ... if you do wood on it, be sure clean up thoroughly after each session, and re-oil the surfaces, because some woods promote rust.
And what you do on the machine won't old the accuracy of your work, because wood swells and shrinks with humidity.
And -- as someone else mentioned, the spindle speed is not high enough for some kinds of woodworking, so you may wind up with tearing of the wood.
It apparently comes with one, described on the web site to which you ponted as an "angle vise" --- but perhaps not the best one for some of your work.
The table is not large enough to handle a 6" milling vise, so I would suggest that you look for clones of the Kurt Anglock in the 4" or even 3" size range. I see one on the ACCESSORIES page with a model number of G7156. You can mount two of them side by side for holding longer parts, but you are probably better to use the clamp sets to hold those.
You need a hold-down clamp set with 1/2" T-nuts to fit the T-slots. It looks as though one can be found on the ACCESSORIES page under the model number "H3331", if you wish to buy from the same source.
Or -- a larger (more complete) set has the number "G1076" on the same page.
Note that when holding a workpiece directly to the table, you have to be careful to not mill through the workpiece into the table. Put some expendable scrap material under the workpiece when you know you will be milling all the way through.
Well ... the collets can hold endmills, but they sometimes slip under heavy cuts, causing the mill to cut deeper than you wish.
An example end mill holder is part number "G5617" near the bottom of the ACCESSORIES page. You will need one for each size of endmill shank which you use -- with the larger sizes being more important, as the smaller ones are less likely to slip in the collets. I would suggest a full set of the R8 collets, and at least the 3/4" 5/8" and 1/2" end mill holders.
Making curved slots suddenly tosses in another requirement. The options for that are:
1) A rotary table. I don't see one on the ACCESSORIES page, and I'm not sure how large a one you can fit onto that machine. The workpiece bolts to the top of the table, and is rotated under the endmill to form the curves.
2) CNC (Computer Numerical Control). A computer turns the cranks instead of you, and can make very complex curves very accurately.
I don't see any hints that this has a kit available from Grizzley to convert it to CNC, so you will be needing to use kits from other vendors, or do your own conversion from scratch.
In closing, I would suggest that the round column will produce problems when you have to change the head height as you change tools, because you will lose the zero reference from the X and Y axes as the head rotates around the column.
yes I have thought of that. but for what I would do in wood it should be fine. end mills cut wood really well .I have used them in my drill press they cut good when they did not chatter (G) mostly in wood I will drill with it and do slots. Knight-Toolworks
been thinking of trying the aluminum ones. I use just cheap carbide
1/4" in my router and they work pretty well. but at only 4.00 each they are cost effective to chuck. where the aluminum ones are quite a bit more. Knight-Toolworks
sorry about that. must have been since I pasted from word.
so far I have not had that issue on the sliding table on my drill press or the vise. my wood is pretty dry and all tropical's and that could be it. it can go weeks between cleaning the wood off.
I may go for the
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as it would do far more. it will hurt the budget pretty badly though. but it would do more of the things I would like to do in the future.
that's what I needed since they had several types.
I should have said using a ball end mill. at least right now. I can't see doing complex curves. at least not right now.
yes someone else pointed that out. but for what I do it would not be too hard to reset. my metal working is not like most I don't need high degree's of accuracy and I am used to working around problems.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:42:29 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Steve knight quickly quoth:
Verily.
Their G8689 would be the minimal (mini mill) and with CNC automation, (extra $$) it could do all you need with the exception of milling the full length of a jointer plane in one pass.
The G9959 would be the perfect mill for you, albeit an extra thousand ducats. It could handle any size plane you make from any material.
On the G1006, the power feed would be a handy item for automating passes, leaving you to do other things while it worked.
As a happy owner of many of your fine planes, Steve, I believe none is wider than 4", so a 4 or 5" vise should suffice. I believe one comes with the G1006. Be aware that the milling vises are shorter than most and plan for that with extra clamping if needed.
Lag it to the table and an R-8 collet set might be helpful to you. Then you could use eBay and other cheap endmills. Will you be making your own dovetail-soled metal planes again, Steve?
You'll need a clamping kit like the G1076, but they're designed for metal. You'll have to make your own interface pieces to keep from damaging the wood when you clamp it. Thick copper plates would probably suffice for the cuts you'd make without the vise, unless you mill first and sand later, removing the extra stock and the clamp dings.
A corner chisel might be good if you intend to make square-edged slots.
Let us know what you end up with, Steve.
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the runout issue has been a real problem for me. making the plow planes as been a real problem because of it.
yes that's the only limit. I could see getting another mill. but you never know. one thing I really want to do is mill the edges of the plane irons instead of grinding the edges. that would save me huge amounts of effort.
I want it but it would double the cost at about 3,000 with the tooling I need. plus it would not be a good for drilling holes in the planes. I guess later on when I am going better I could get another mill once I know what and how to do the things I want. accurate drilled holes are critical and 3.5" travel would not really be enough.
I might opt for it.
I stated it wrong I meant 6" long pieces like plane irons. so I need to clamp longer pieces no wide ones. so I need jaws 6" long but I don't need more then 4" clamping depth.
infill's? god I thin kit may take some learning first (G) and if I do the work who knows how much it will cost. but I can sure do what I really want though and make changes right away.
good idea.
yes another good idea. I was looking locally and I can get the shopfox mill that's pretty much the same as the grizzly for less after shipping. Knight-Toolworks
Now that you're zeroing in on a mill, let me throw a few contrary ideas at you.
Runout shouldn't be a problem with a decent drill press. To minimize it, and to get better repeatability, consider making up some jigs with replaceable bushings. Can't get much better than that. If the quill travel of 3.5" isn't enough, look for a bigger drill press. The old Delta/Rockwell "6 over 6" presses and the similar Powermatic models are great machines with 6" quill travel.
If you need more quill travel than the mill/drill will provide, and want a mill, you're now talking about a knee mill - which is a big step up.
Or maybe an older horizontal mill, which is what I have. Lots more rigid than the verticals, since the spindle doesn't move. Since the spindle doesn't move, drilling is done with the Y feed. Plenty of travel there.
For the edges of plane irons, consider a small surface grinder. Used ones are dirt cheap. Now you can work with hardened steel as well as soft. I've got a small Delta toolmaker's grinder, which is pretty versatile. You can also use it for all sorts of sharpening jobs, although it's not the best for that. For a planemaker, it should be awfully handy.
Hope this helps without confusing things too much.
Well hello Steve Knight from Rec.woodworking. Famous hand plane maker. Glad to see you here where the real machine folks hang out. For what you build I would think a good benchtop knee mill would work fine with 2 flute (aluminium type) cutters. Good luck. ...lew...
Hey, Steve! Long time, no talkie. The high-helix ones don't produce such a good finish in wood. Kind of like the helical reamers versus the straight-fluted ones, if you know what I mean.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:57:11 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Steve knight quickly quoth:
Yes, it would. You could do it in one pass and then go to the grinder (sander?) and honing stones.
In that case, grab one of the mini-mills from Enco. They're on sale in this month's catalog for $398. Move up to a larger one a few months later, once you see how it's used and know what you'll need in the larger mill. And then you could sell the mini mill to me for half price. That's a Win/Win situation, wot?
You could build jigs for the smaller table which would allow you to use the shorter travel. Jigging up is half the battle in production scenarios.
I guess that'll all depend upon how you'll utilize the mill.
You may not need a large vise for that. What are you cutting and how were you thinking of holding it?
You could also hire a guy to come in and use the mill for those if you want to go back into production on them. They were sure sweet.
I have the ShopFox mortiser and love it. I believe Griz owns their company, BTW.
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That will do it. :-) I presume that you actually typed "1/2", and Word converted it to the special single character? (I don't have Word, so I don't know for sure how it behaves. :-)
O.K. I think that oak is one of the more active ones. I'm not sure which exotic ones might be even more of a problem.
In particular, it has a bit of acid (tannic, IIRC) as part of its makeup, and if it absorbs humidity, steel or iron which it is contacting will get rusty fairly quickly.
O.K. A real knee mill. Hmm ... I wonder what makes it a "wood" mill? The column looks a bit lightweight for serious metalwork, but for aluminum it should be fine.
Looking at the manual confirms my initial impression that while you can tilt the head from side to side, you can't "nod" it, making complex angles a bit more difficult to accomplish. (You will instead need a tilting table or an angle vise to accomplish that.)
Download the .pdf copy of the manual and look at page 26. That will show you how the clamping kits work.
For something to be used mostly for woodwork, it should do fine. It will probably do well enough for milling aluminum and brass, but I'm not sure about steel. You'll at least need to take fairly gentle cuts in steel.
Even if you get some smaller shank endmills, they will probably work well enough in collets. But for heavier endmills (with shanks in the sizes I listed), having the endmill holders is a good idea. (Not sure how necessary this may be for woodwork.
Note that you will probably want a separate set of endmills for woodwork, so you can keep them quite sharp. Using them on metal will make them less satisfactory for woodwork in the future. Perhaps take endmills which have been used for a while in woodwork and move them to metalwork, while getting new ones for the woodwork.
O.K. That is different enough to not be a problem.
Well ... the larger machine which you are looking at does not have that problem.
Aw heck, Steve, it's not hard at all! Get yer hands on a manual milling machine and you could prolly knock out empty infill bodies at 200 bucks a pop -- if you don't price your time too high. (G)
well my delta 16.5" is not a decent machine (G) I bet it has 1/4" of runout at the tip of a bit. you never know where the tip will hit. but the cost of a good drill press is enough that it does not justify the use of it. I have to get a lot of use out of a new machine to justify the cost. I need really accurate holes in my wood. more so then most woodworkers. I also ream holes a lot and drill a couple holes one inside the other,
the 5" of the mill drill is plenty. since that travel is usually only for drilling I don't want to crank a table up and down for that job.
Plus the cost. I just could not afford the extra 2000.00
yes I have thought of one. but what you call cheap (G) Plus the room for it in my small shop. I cut my plane irons one of those small jet bandsaw's I can cut them at about 33 degrees. this seems to break blades and I can go through three or 4 cutting 16 bars of my o-1 if I could cut them at 90 and mill them or just finish the bevel on the mill it would save me a lot of work grinding them on my belt sander. well that job is pretty fast but hard on my hands. I can do 150 irons in about 2 hours. Knight-Toolworks
rabbet and shoulder irons. when do you mill say a 3/4" stock down with a tail of 1/4" it would need full support the whole length of the iron for that.
yes they do the showrooms are right across the street. but my local store gave me a better price and I only have to pay for delivery. Knight-Toolworks
yes oak and water turn steel black so do other woods. but so far I have not seen anything of that problem on my milling table. I don't clean it every often either (G)
it looks handy for what I do but I can't justify or really afford the extra 2000.00 for it now. hell the mill drill is the most expensive tool in my shop when I get it.
yes this is the way to go. wood dulls them faster then metalwork does. but usually they cut steel still.
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