Sheldon/Vernon Horizontal Mill

By any chance do you mean "arbor" instead of "spindle"? Arbors are much more easily made than spindles. Bob

Dan- it sounds like you are talking about the arbor. This is the part that that holds the cutters. If that's so, then the arbor should be available from tool suppliers like MSC. The spindle is enclosed completely by the machine casting except for about 1//4" in the front and about 5" in the back where the drive pulley for the power feed is moiunted. I have a Vernon mill. And another fellow I know owns one made by the same company but it is larger and has a different brand name. Both of these machines used Brown & Sharpe taper arbors. #9 I think. However, it turns out that this taper is smaller than R8 taper. So, I modified my spindle and his to accept the more common R8 tooling. If you go this route then you can use either an arbor with the R8 taper or one with a straight shank that fits into an R8 collet. The R8 specs can be found at the same site you mentioned. (I think). If not there these specs are easy to find using google. The spindle must be removed from the machine to change the taper unless you have a slide that you can bolt to the mill table. If you decide to change the taper in a lathe (easiest) then you should chuck up the spindle where the bearings run at the back of the spindle and use a steady rest at the front where the bearings run. Make sure the the spindle runs true at the chuck. This method will insure that the new taper runs dead on. Eric R Snow, E T Precision Machine

Hi Eric,

My ears are burning. I have recently acquired a Burke #4 horizontal mill. It has A B&S #9 spindle. I'm in the process of clean-up and replacing the drive belt so my spindle is off.

I'm wondering if I should modify the spindle to R8. Eric is this a modification you would be willing to do again for a fee?

Thanks --- Rick in SF Bay Area

Greetings Rick, Maybe. I'm really busy right now. Busy with commercial jobs in my shop. Also, I don't know how hard you're spindle is. The Vernon mill spindles I did were not that hard, so machining with carbide worked well. You would need to see how hard your spindle is. If a file cuts it then it would be machinable with carbide tools. However, do you have a lathe? If so, this would be a good project to learn how to check tapers, learn how to make something run really true on the lathe, and gain the confidence to tackle jobs that you wouldn't have done in the past. I will be happy to guide you through the method I used to machine the spindles. My way is not the only way, but it is the way I like to do this type of work. Other people will no doubt have different methods that they feel are just as good. Eric

Eric,

I like your suggestion. I do have a lathe and I need a project that helps me learn to do more accurate work. What I might do is fabricate an arbor first. That way, I won't be so worried about wrecking the spindle to my mill. I did just run a file across the spindle and it cuts pretty easily.

My lathe doesn't have a taper attachment, but when I get to that point, our local high school has a dozen lathes with assorted attachments and capabilities.

I also have 7/8" arbor with a B&S #9 taper that I can use as a model. I would love to have a 1" arbor - there seems to be a lot more used horizontal mill cutters available for 1" arbors...

Look forward to hearing your thoughts/suggestions.

Thanks - Rick

Well when everybody gets done converting their BS9 tapers to R8 then I guess there will be some BS9 arbors for sale....cheap?? ;-) Please keep my e-mail handy! I just don't have the confidence to start cutting on my spindle yet....maybe some day. I'd much rather make tooling to fit the current taper. I'd consider having someone do it for me though....perhaps we can submit a batch job as a group and save on setup costs etc.

Eric, you mentioned MSC but I can only find standard taper arbors at their site. Do you have a link to a BS9 taper arbor sold commercially? I would think these would be long outdated.

Dan

fe_rick wrote:

Haven't called them in some time - had great service when I did -

Grand Tool supply - has B&S Taper arbors...arbors of many sizes and types. Page 239 is the B&S taper milling machine arbors 3 each in the BS9 size.

800 866 5730 or 201 342 6900 only sales things on the www site - can order catalog - ...

Mart> Well when everybody gets done converting their BS9 tapers to R8 then I

Hi Eric,

I replied yesterday, but I think it was lost somewhere...

Thanks for your generous offer. I've given it some thought. I do have a lathe and it would be a great project for me to learn more. The spindle on my Burke #4 does cut easily with a file.

I do have some worrys about ruining my spindle. So, I'm thinking it would be good practice to first try and fabricate a new arbor. The only one I have is a 7/8". A 1" arbor would be nice - easier to find used cutters. I can use my 7/8" as a model. While I would be creating the outside taper of a B&S #9 instead of an inside taper of R8, it would seem that some of the same principles apply.

Let me know your thoughts or suggestions. I don't have a taper attachment for my lathe. In a couple of months I'll have access again to several lathes at our local high school. My 10" logan does have a steady rest and an assortment of chucks.

Thanks,

- Rick

The B&S tapers are very easy to make if your tailstock is offsetable. IRRC, the taper is .5" per foot.

I sold several mills in the last couple years, both a Vernon and an Index and several others, and have made both endmill holders and collets on a basic lathe. Very very easy to do by simply setting the tailstock over. It takes a bit of futzing around to the the right angle..but then you can make any number of blanks and later bore them for whatever application you need.

Making collets is extremely easy, particularly if you have a slitting saw and arbor to fit your mill.

I like to make em this way:

Turn a proper lump of material to .50 over max diameter (if you have a

5 C collet, this is really easy) and 1" over length

Place turned round in collet or 4 jaw and indicate to run true. Drill and then bore to .0005 over the nominal sizes, typically 1/4,

3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4.

Make several blanks with a simple pilot hole in the center..say .250 for future special tooling etc.

If you are making end mill holders, use stock that is at least .5, preferably .75 bigger than the large end diameter. This allows you to have some place to cross drill for a set screw for your endmill.

Set up a dead center in both spindle and tailstock. If you have an existing holder, place it between centers and offset the tailstock so a dial indicator attached to the lathe carraige indicates Zero along the length of the holders taper.

Turn one of your blanks to the taper. measure both ends for proper dimensions and tweak the tailstock accordingly. Trig helps

Mark the spindle and the 1" extra length (at the large end), and try it in the actual spindle of the miller. A bit of prussian blue inside the spindle taper will help show up any high or low spots, or a taper a smidge outside of nominal. Replace the blank aligning the marks and correct tailstock offset if necessary and repeat the turn as necessary. If you go a bit deep, it only makes the taper go deeper in the spindle..hence that 1" overlong.

Then turn your collets to the proper taper. I like to relieve the center of the collet/Holder .50, leaving a 1-1.5" band on both ends. Dont relieve if you are going to use it for extra heavy hogging.

Place collet between centers on miller and using slitting saw..cut 3 or 4 slots 2" long on the fat end of the collet. Repeat for others.

Place collet back in lathe, using the excess length on fat end to hold on, and spot drill then drill and tap for draw bolt thread.

Chuck each collet in mill spindle, and using a cut off tool bolted to a block of scrap, part off the excess end stick out, leaving at least .375, using the tables travel to feed the cut off tool.

You can use the vise and a couple parallels to hold the cut off tool. If making endmill holders, put a lathe tool in your vise, and face and chamfer or profile the end of the end mill holder to your taste. I like to make the stick out square, so I can hold it in drill press vise for drilling and tapping the set screw hole(s).

Once you set up the tailstock setover, you can wack out a couple dozen blanks easily and quickly and do your second ops later as you need.

If you want to be fancy and are comfortable..you can even turn a taper on the end for a Jacobs drill chuck.

You may wish to case harden them, or simply leave em plain. Ive made and used both and while the cased one is harder..the uncased ones dont seem to wear at all in normal use.

I like to make up 4-6 of them with oversized ends, then drill and bore for 1" and 7/8" /dead nuts and then turn a horizontal arbor to 1" and one to 7/8", slot with endmill or horizontal cutter to proper key depth (not required on most small millers), then either press the arbor into the holder blank, or silver solder them together.

Two part horizontal mill arbors are very easy to make this way and have minimal runout if you are careful.

I used some hot rolled bar stock, and some 303 bar stock and made up

24 blanks. I then made up a full set of end mill holders and a full set of collets, all in the same day, and had blanks left over to make up just about anything I wanted later on. Some got turned into horizontal mill arbors, others into drill chucks, others were bored for both MT2 and MT3 adapters.

Its very easy, though getting the taper correct is a bit fidity..but once you do..you can, as Ive mentioned above, wack out a bunch and have full sets for little or no money.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

LOL. Sometimes it takes me a while to really converge on it accurately - I've been known to use up most of that inch or so (and be sweating the final outcome) especially for MT stuff.

Jim

Rick, You don't need the taper attachment. The R8 taper is short enough to turn the taper with the compound. Eric

No Dan, I don't. I just figured they would have one. Try Rutland, Enco, and google. Eric

Rick, You will need the taper attachment for the B&S taper because of the length. Unless your compound has lots of travel. And yes, the same methods apply. Keep your tool on center. An off center tool will not give you the results you want. Use your spindle as the gauge for the arbor. This means you need to be able to remove the arbor to put it in the mill and then put it back in the lathe exactly the way it was. Use bluing to see where the parts make contact. Prussian blue. I think Dykem calls it Hi-Spot blue. Anyway, it's the non-drying stuff. Be careful with the stuff. A little goes a long way. Eric

You make it sound very easy. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks - Rick