Millwrights

I went, I saw, I still don't know. Are you animal, vegetable or mineral?

On 20 May 2007 13:39:54 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, greggspen quickly quoth:

D: None of the Above.

He'e merely yet another arrogant and clueless union worker.

Which reminds me of the email joke I got the other day...

--snip-- A dedicated Teamsters union worker was attending a convention in Las Vegas and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the first one, he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?"

"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."

"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"

"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she answered

Offended at such unfair dealings, the union man stomped off down the street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam responded, "Why yes sir, this is a union house.

We observe all union rules."

The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" "The girls get $80 and the house gets $20."

"That's more like it!" the union man said.

He handed the Madam $100, looked around the room, and pointed to a stunningly attractive blonde.

"I'd like her," he said.

"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam. Then she gestured to a

92-year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has 67 years seniority and according to union rules, she's next."

--snip--

-- Unfortunately, not only do scientists have an incentive to cry "crisis," so too do the environmental advocacy groups need crises. Without them, how could advocacy groups justify thier pleas for donations? Nearly every American gets bulk quantities of junk mail warning them of ozone depletion, topsoil erosion, resource depletion, diminishing biodiversity, and global warming. The money the advocacy groups collect is spent on lawyers, lobbying, propaganda, and the salaries and perquisites of the headquarers staffs. The media also have a strong incentive to report "crises"--they must sell newspapers and airtime after all. So there it is--an iron triangle of scientists pleading for research funds, interest groups who need crises to justify their existence, and a press that needs to sell papers. No wonder people are frightened. --Ronald Bailey in "EcoScam"

Hi Larry. This is kind of vehement, even for you, don't you think?

Here we have a tradesman who is proud of his job and his fellow workers. He's proud of what they've managed to accomplish. Is there something wrong with that?

Frankly, if everyone felt the same pride in what they do, this world would be much improved.

Or perhaps you know something about this individual (he IS a person you know) or his fellow workers you can share with us?

dennis in nca

A little close to the millwright/rigging topic... I often look at big machines and wonder how the hell they can be moved/loaded/unloaded safely. Often there are no obvious points for forklift forks to go.

i

Hi Iggy, My experience has been the majority of machinery manufacturers whose machines, new and used, I've moved, is that the design engineers provide some type of points to pick from.

The best of the manufacturers manage to either get the information to the customer or rigging contractor ahead of the move or tape an informational packet to the crate (or sometines tape it inside, somewhere).

Without special instructions you just move it the quickest/ safest way which didn't always include forks. In fact I'd estimate 90% of our rigging was done with a boom on our lifts.

dennis in nca

Thursday, I watched 2 guys move 6 Okuma LC-10s (twin turret CNC lathes) off flat bed trucks and into the shop Im doing the "Project" on, through a door that had .50" clearance. Each weighs 15,000 lbs and is 10' long and 9' 11.5" wide. The doorway is 10'. The forklift they used had forks 5' long.

They moved and set them plus/minus 1/8th" of the spot marked and perfectly square and parallel with each other. And in about 35 minutes each, from the time each truck pulled up.

The 2 guys made it look easy. And it was. For them.

And I damned well complimented them on their skills too!

Gunner

This Message is guaranteed environmentally friendly Manufactured with 10% post consumer ASCII Meets all EPA regulations for clean air Using only naturally occuring fibers Use the Message with confidance. (Some settling may occure in transit.) (Best if Used before May 13, 2009)

On 21 May 2007 07:37:01 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, rigger quickly quoth:

Even for me? You must not have read my retorts last time he posted this exact message. Newp. He's a spamming troll. Look up his posts here. He posted the exact same message last month. I think he's trying to rack up hits on his website.

If that were the simple truth, nothing would be wrong. But it ain't. He's a "Union ONLY!" man. I'm a "Union NEVER" man. C'est la guerre.

Verily.

Only what I've read here. Isn't that enough?

What does the term "gravy sucking pigs" mean to you, rigger?

- Press HERE to arm. (Release to detonate.) -----------

Ummmm..politician?

I know many people who have a negative outlook whenever they hear the word "union" (especially Southerners?) but vilifing everyone in a union because you don't like the way you feel unions operate, is chauvinistic (sp?).

I've found most union people to be as dedicated and hard- working as any people I've met. However there are always some who'll try to take advantage of any situation; check your definition above and you'll find it pretty much matches my guess, and for the same reasons.

As far as this person spamming is concerned, there seems to be little concern about spamming or off topic posts going on here, all the time. I frankly hadn't noticed if he was be- coming annoying as some other groups have some really SERIOUSLY annoying spammers.

dennis in nca

I have never seen, or even heard of a home metalworking shop that was UNION.

????????????? Only items related to a home metalworking ship may be heard of or discussed?

I didn't know there was such a rule. How could I have missed that?

dennis in nca

In other words: What does being a union millwright have to do with home metalworking?

I guess that would be a personal decision depending on the needs of the individual, and the capability of the poster. During my machinery moving days I meet some extremely talented millwrights, especially in the area of machinery repair and alignment. Don't you think these are areas we can all benefit from?

In any case, deciding whether someone should be allowed to post on a public forum, based on their occupation, goes against my grain. No need for a caste system here.

On the other hand, I'd agree, if the poster only wanted to spam but not in any other way contribute, that that would be obnoxious. But my decision would not be based on the poster's occupation, color, race, nationality or union affiliation, only on their efforts. You may feel differently.

dennis in nca

I don't see a reason to keep mentioning that he's a union man.

Not everyone has had good experiences with unions. In fact, I have never had a good encounter with anything union.

I've had a union president tell me they were going to slash the tires on my truck and smash out the windows if I showed up for work. My job was Quality assurance on the PRC-77 low band VHF man pack radio. My job wasn't union but I would have lost my job if I didn't show up. I wasn't allowed to solder or do a lot of other things at that defense plant, but the head of production for our line was borrowing me to show them how to do things while the union steward stood there, glaring at me. She was a nasty blonde idiot. She waved her finger in my face the first night and told me "If I ever catch you soldering, I'll get you fired" I smiled and told her I didn't want to do her job. She sneered and told me that no man had ever been able to solder. I smiled and told her, I do enough in my own business. I use up to a half pound of Ersin multicore a month. it really pissed her off. One of the women took apart the gearbox for the channelized tuning, and they had spent two days trying to put it back together. When i heard about it aI asked their boss if I could give it a try. They were laughing as I took a quick look, then started putting the gears into the housing, but they stopped a minute later when ut worked properly.

The IBEW tried to unionize the CATV company where I ran the repair shop for all the electronics for our plant, and for other company owned systems all across the country. They promised me $2.50 an hour less than I was making, two weeks less vacation, and promised that I wouldn't have to do anything outside my job description and all they wanted was about $1000 a year in dues. It would have cost me over $6,000 a year to join.

Work experiences and any usable skills SHOULD be shared, or they will be lost, like a lot of older skills and methods. I share my 40+ years knowledge of electronics on other newsgroups, to those who really want an answer. Like a lot of newsgroups, some idiot will ask a question, then gets real pissy when he doesn't get the answer he wants. These days I can't do a lot of metalworking, because of nerve damage and carpal tunnel Syndrome. Most of my tools were stolen or destroyed in two years of hurricanes, and I only have a very few tools left to do anything. I loved using a metal lathe and a milling machine when I was in my teens but I now live on a small disability pension so I'll probably never be able to afford to buy my own. I'm down to a couple drills, a drill press, an abrasive cutoff saw and an oxyacetylene torch.

Where did I say that he shouldn't post? I just see now reason to mention UNIONS in a group like this.

See above.

On Thu, 24 May 2007 22:39:01 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Michael A. Terrell" quickly quoth:

Small world. I was a QA shipping and receiving inspector for Southcom, Int'l. in Escondido, CA in the early 70s. They built some of the first (I believe) frequency synthesized manpack radios.

Atta Boy!

My only inside experience with a union was my first job as a boxboy for AlphaBeta markets. Non-union boxboys made $1.65/hr and union men earned a whopping $2.35. Of course, after the union dues and such were taken out, I earned a gigantic $1.87/hr. Ayup, things were cheaper back in '68.

Nearly all other close encounters I've had with unions have been negative, so I'm quintessentially anti-union now.

Another Atta Boy comin' your way, Mikey.

So let 'em eat turds. Ignore those idiots.

Suckage. Condolences, too.

True.

Spam's another subject, though. I believe he was here only to promote his website, to get more hits. We don't need that.

I've had a couple of experiences with unions, mostly bad. They want to do the job and not let anyone else do the work but yet they are not capable of doing it. I was involved in putting the tv cameras in the Lincoln tunnel in NY/NJ but it was turned over to the electricians union. They screwed it up royally... had big black hum bar across every monitor. They had no idea how you had to ground the system. Our company had to go back and redo all the coax fittings and separate the double shields, outside grounded in NJ and the inside grounded with Con ED. in NYC. There was over three volts difference in the two grounds.

Another time I was doing an installation of a FM transmitter on the Empire State building and I had a union electrician that said it was his job to put it on the air. I asked him if he had a first class fcc licence and if he didn't and did work on the transmitter he could be subject to a big fine and possible prison term. That made him a little contrite so I gave him a couple of bucks and sent him down to get some coffee and hard rolls while I set up the transmitter. He was pretty reasonable after I explained the situation.

John

This isn't union related, but I had a building inspector insist that i had to let one of his "Good ole boys" wire a 1952 RCA TTU-25B UHF TV transmitter I had moved from Lisbon, Fl to Destin, Fl. and was busy rebuilding some damaged wiring harnesses. I pulled the original blueprints and showed him where it said, "Electrician, connect power here.". He told me I didn't have the right licenses or permits. I dropped the FCC and FAA construction permits on the table and told him that i had all that I needed, until we were ready to have the 480 Volt three phase fed to the building, and connected to the main power switch. He told me that he was going to be back within the hour with a "Cease and desist order", but it looks like the judge had more brains than he did, because he never came back.

I thought the PRC-70 that was developed by Cincinnati Electronics was PLL synthesized. I know that the PRC-77 was crystal mixer synthesized. the crystals had no trimmer caps, so a lot were rejected for being out of specs.

They had a large metal part (I think it was a shielded audio transformer, but its been over 30 years) that soldered to one of the module's PC board. They had replaced the defective part, but they couldn't get the solder to flow properly. As usual, I was called over to show them how to do it. The union steward was waiting, as usual. I explained to the group of ladies that their soldering irons didn't produce enough heat, then showed them how to get proper wetting and flow with a pair of irons. I glanced up to see her staring at me, full of hate because it was so simple. I spotted a second module with the same problem so I grabbed it and said, "I'm only going to show you, one more time!...". I thought her head was going to burst into flames. ;-)

My first job was mid '60s in a TV shop while I was in Jr. High School. I was paid $1 an hour. I went to another shop after I graduated in 1970 for $3 an hour. Then Uncle Sam took me, and I took a pay cut for two years. I got out as an E4, with the military equivalent of the FCC first class, as a civilian acquired skill. Ust my luck, the FCC had stopped allowing you to present your military record and pay the fee to get your first ticket just before I got out. :(

On Fri, 25 May 2007 06:54:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Michael A. Terrell" quickly quoth:

I don't recall the details and didn't learn electronics until the late

80s (after a back problem told me I couldn't toss transmichigans and rear ends around any more), but the only reference thoughts the "PRC" designation brings up in my mind relates to the Chinese not radios. ;)

Did you show her how to heat-sink it to prevent fire?

Curses; foiled again! So what did you have to do to get punched?

Another union story comes from pre-opening day at COMDEX. All the new Teamsters were bitching up a storm when the union wards wouldn't let them perform a simple thing like plugging in an extension cord. They had to wait for half an hour until a union electrician could free himself from a cigarette break, donut break, lunch break, rest period, or actual electrical work before they could move on to the next job. The air was electric BLUE around the whole area. Electricians couldn't hammer over a nail point which had just shredded their arm, either.

Yeah, we need unions like we need holes in the head.

I agree totally Larry.

In fact, if this were Not the case and "Millwright Ron" was NOT just a spammer, NOW would be a good time for him to step forward and tell us he's not. Ron.....Ron....???

dennis in nca