mini backhoe

I am trying to collect material and ideas in order to make a mini backhoe. I may never make one, but I am proceeding on the grounds that I will. Before starting in on how I should just buy a real backhoe, let me say I do not need a real backhoe. I can really get by with just using a shovel. B ut a mini backhoe that would be say 3 times as fast as just using a shovel appeals to me.
I have thought about building a tiny mini backhoe, but the cost would be ne arly the same as a some what bigger machine. The hydraulic cylinders and h ydraulic valves are the major expense and they would not be significantly l ess for a tiny backhoe.
I purchased the plan that are on Ebay for $13.99 and are not real happy wit h them. Most of the drawings are three dimensional showing all the hidden lines. And most dimensions are in the text. And the pages all have the s ame title block. But I did not pay a lot so can not expect a lot.
I am hoping to collect most of the material ( not including hydraulics ) fr om the local scrap yard. I am intending to put the engine, hydraulic pump, filter and tank as a unit with quick disconnects. So I can remove that p art and connect it to a log splitter or what ever. And hope to find a boat trailer at the scrap yard to supply the wheels. I have already bought s ome 3/16 rectangular 4 by 3 inch tubing for the booms and chassis. All in p ieces only 4 feet long, but I have a welder. I also have some cut offs of 1 inch rod and some 1" bronze bushings.
So what I would like is comments. Especially from anyone that has built a mini backhoe. Good sources for hydraulic cylinders and valves would be ni ce. The Surplus Center is already bookmarked. Things to avoid would be ni ce.
Oh yes, I am thinking about using my feet to swivel the boom instead of of using a hydraulic cylinder. It seems like that might be okay to do. Maybe have a plan on how to add power to swivel the boom if using my feet is too much work. Or maybe figure out a way to use car clutch and brake parts to swivel the boom. I am sure there will be comments on that idea.
Dan

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
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If you haven't already, download the manual from HF for their little backhoe:
https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/62000-62999/62365.pdf
It has an hydraulic schematic, parts blowout... may help you sort stuff out some in your head :)

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 2:38:07 PM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote:
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Thanks for the link to the Harbor Freight backhoe manual. I had been meani ng to look at it , but had not gotten around to it. It is a lot better man ual than I expected. I intend to find out the prices of Harbor Freight par ts. Might be cheaper than buying the parts from other places.
Dan

wrote in message wrote:
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Thanks for the link to the Harbor Freight backhoe manual. I had been meaning to look at it , but had not gotten around to it. It is a lot better manual than I expected. I intend to find out the prices of Harbor Freight parts. Might be cheaper than buying the parts from other places.
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I've recently been looking at hydraulic parts from a place called Surplus Center. It might be easy enough to setup to use the same pump and motor (or engine) on a hydraulic press and/or a log splitter. Some guys of course claim they can out split a hydraulic splitter all day long, but that's up to you. LOL. Moving the pump and motor, or pump motor and valve from one machine to another will be a bit of work, as you will need to plug lines and openings as you pull the parts to keep dirt out. You may want to have extra hydraulic hoses to make it a little easier. MY HF porta power has a semi quick connect that seems to work ok, but the flow rate is pretty slow.
Its been a long time since I ran a backhoe (1987 maybe) but it seems even with foot powered swing you are going to need a minimum of three dual acting cylinders. 4 (or 5) with swing control.

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The standard farm equipment type quick connects work just fine. Same thing used on pickup truck snow ploughs. Better than the little piddlers used on a porta-power (which would likely be "just" adequate - and I know guys who have used standard air fittings - but the male end leaks and makes a mess when not connected. (you always need to plug the two ends together when not connected to something else)

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 6:23:24 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
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I got some qd's at the scrap yard that are fair sized but only the male hal f. I thought they might fit the lawn tractor, but they are too big for tha t. I need to figure out what size they are and whether I can use them. Th e nearest TSC is about 20 miles away in a direction I hardly ever go.
Dan

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 4:36:51 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Right. The Surplus Center is the place I said I had bookmarked. THey have lots of hydraulic stuff, but none a cheap as it was a long time ago.
With the right quick disconnects I should be able to change to another machine without having to plug lines.
And you are correct about the number of cylinders and each one has to have a control valve. For me that is where most of the expense is.
I am not one of those guys that claims to be able to split wood faster than a hydraulic splitter. I use to get my exercise splitting wood, but that was before I retired.
Dan

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 14:38:03 -0400, Leon Fisk
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You can find several different types of plans on Ebay for ten bucks a pop, too. Cutlists, patterns, assembly tips, etc. Pretty cool. I've wanted one of those for decades, too, but I've seldom had a use for one. Instead, I pulled a couple dozen shrubs/trees out using my cherry picker (engine hoist). The key: soak the ground 36 hours before digging, dig straight down a foot away from the shrub or small tree (larger roots can be hacked off with a 12" wood blade on a sawzall), chain the trunk or trunk bunch, then lift straight up with the hoist in 2T mode. Up they come in under half an hour apiece.
But I still want a backhoe, anti-tank missiles, artillery, space ship, and mass quantities of high explosives. After all, I'm a red-blooded American boy who knows how to blow off a finger or two. (right, Pete?) (No, no known uses for any of it/no plotting. ;) I'd settle for a gW vaporizing laser or disruptor for my yard to keep the riff raff, dogs, and zombies out.

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 11:14:21 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
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All I want are the personal helicopter and jet pack promised to me by Popular Science magazine in the early 60s.

On 10/15/2017 11:09 AM, snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote:
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Is this to be used to bury small children of "leftists" who perish in the "cull"?

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 11:45:10 -0700, Phil Dambach
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The cullers are saving up for one of these http://tinyurl.com/y7t9jqd8 , so that they may someday bury these libs, http://tinyurl.com/y883hcbk , who have jobs, which makes the cullers jealous.
Anyway, I guess I missed my chance to talk a lot. I recently did a ton of work on my old backhoe, and used it to great effect on a major project. It never crossed my mind to spend an equal amount of time writing out a blow by blow about splitting the thing, fixing the trans shuttle, fabricating all new hoe mounts etc. I thought this group was only for ragging on Hillary and detailing cull deaths! Oh well. :)

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Hey Wieber, this seems like a good time for you to be posting details about that invisible backhoe you used to talk about.
"And a backhoe to do it properly." http://groups.google.com/group/sac.politics/msg/5e2893d4f968287d
"So when can I expect to need to fire up the backhoe? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rush-limbaugh/msg/02f213f515dbdd75
"my backhoe is fueled!" http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/msg/8ec5e138b751217a
So why aren't you bombarding the group with the details and the photos? LOL
Sounds like somebody will be swinging by your dump soon to take a picture of that permanent junk yard ornament Hotel Econoline. What angle is best for getting the invisible backhoe in the same shot?

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You don't have a backhoe. You never did. You don't even have one available to borrow. If you did, you'd have used it to fix your septic system, or to earn a decent living. You're an incompetent liar.

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... remains an unlicensed yard ornament. You remain a liar for claiming you had the money to license it, and for saying you'd "happily" post the registration.

I am trying to collect material and ideas in order to make a mini backhoe. I may never make one, but I am proceeding on the grounds that I will.
Before starting in on how I should just buy a real backhoe, let me say I do not need a real backhoe. I can really get by with just using a shovel. But a mini backhoe that would be say 3 times as fast as just using a shovel appeals to me.
I have thought about building a tiny mini backhoe, but the cost would be nearly the same as a some what bigger machine. The hydraulic cylinders and hydraulic valves are the major expense and they would not be significantly less for a tiny backhoe.
I purchased the plan that are on Ebay for $13.99 and are not real happy with them. Most of the drawings are three dimensional showing all the hidden lines. And most dimensions are in the text. And the pages all have the same title block. But I did not pay a lot so can not expect a lot.
I am hoping to collect most of the material ( not including hydraulics ) from the local scrap yard. I am intending to put the engine, hydraulic pump, filter and tank as a unit with quick disconnects. So I can remove that part and connect it to a log splitter or what ever. And hope to find a boat trailer at the scrap yard to supply the wheels. I have already bought some 3/16 rectangular 4 by 3 inch tubing for the booms and chassis. All in pieces only 4 feet long, but I have a welder. I also have some cut offs of 1 inch rod and some 1" bronze bushings.
So what I would like is comments. Especially from anyone that has built a mini backhoe. Good sources for hydraulic cylinders and valves would be nice. The Surplus Center is already bookmarked. Things to avoid would be nice.
Oh yes, I am thinking about using my feet to swivel the boom instead of of using a hydraulic cylinder. It seems like that might be okay to do. Maybe have a plan on how to add power to swivel the boom if using my feet is too much work. Or maybe figure out a way to use car clutch and brake parts to swivel the boom. I am sure there will be comments on that idea.
Dan
==============================After building a hydaulic bucket loader for my Sears GT18 garden tractor I considered (and rejected) a backhoe, using the smallest cylinders here: http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/#/hydraulic-cylinders
A 4"x6" bandsaw and a DC stick welder were enough to cut and assemble the frame. I might have managed with a drill press instead of a milling machine, but the mill and lathe were very useful to make mechanical and hydraulic parts needed to salvage cheap used components instead of buying new. For example the control valve assembly I found for $40 had a fixed pressure relief set way too high so I made an adjustable one.
Before designing anything in detail I took measurements of commercial loaders and reconstructed the stresses on the parts, based on the cylinder dimensions and oil pressure. The loads on the pivot pins are high enough that I made the bushings from solid brass instead of Oilite. Drilling and reaming the two holes in the outer forks of the joints very straight was difficult and the long 0.501" reamer I found set the sizes of the pivot pins and fork width.
The four bar linkage that rotates the bucket was the trickiest part to figure out. You could build the boom and bucket first and play with slotted angle etc to find where to weld on the linkage pivot and cylinder attachment. I made a wooden model to experiment with geometries and clearances.
-jsw

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 3:30:11 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
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I have about the same tools as you do. Well not a real mill, just a drill mill. And I will probably make a wood model or two. I do have plans but a m not sure how good they are. And do have a real backhoe not too far away that I can look at. Your front end loader convinced me that it was possibl e for me to build a mini backhoe.
Dan

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 3:30:11 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
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I have about the same tools as you do. Well not a real mill, just a drill mill. And I will probably make a wood model or two. I do have plans but am not sure how good they are. And do have a real backhoe not too far away that I can look at. Your front end loader convinced me that it was possible for me to build a mini backhoe.
Dan
=========================My Clausing is about the same size as a mill drill, ie the table wasn't long enough to drill two parallel holes several feet apart. You won't have the problem of trying to make both sides identical and aligning their pivots, but the horizontal pivot may be difficult because so much force is concentrated on it and its height may need to be more than your mill's quill travel.
I quickly found that shrinkage prevented welding pre-finished parts into a complex assembly. Whatever precision machining was needed had to be doable on the fully completed unit, meaning I had to include reference surfaces and provide for clamps.
-jsw

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 3:30:11 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
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I have about the same tools as you do. Well not a real mill, just a drill mill. And I will probably make a wood model or two. I do have plans but am not sure how good they are. And do have a real backhoe not too far away that I can look at. Your front end loader convinced me that it was possible for me to build a mini backhoe.
Dan =========================My loader would have been significantly more expensive if I didn't have a lathe to modify cheap second-hand parts.
Working on a custom (not mine) snowplow mount this afternoon reminded me that it would be very nice to have a long shank reamer that cuts on the pull to align holes in the two welded side plates of a fork connection, or in this case increase the mounting pin clearance.
-jsw

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@krl.org"
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Greetings Dan, Forget the foot powered swing. To get any real work done you will need to swing the hoe back and forth A LOT. I am by no means a backhoe expert but I do have many hours on mine. For a while I had some problems that made the boom swing slow and it was maddening. I was used to the much faster swing that it had when I fist bought it. Now that it swings fast again I really appreciate it. Furthermore, even though running my backhoe only requires pulling or pushing levers or foot pedals it is still tiring work if done for long. Having to swing even a small boom when fully extended will be hard to do very many times. Also, cylinder size is important. A friend of mine has a backhoe smaller than mine on the back of his Case. My Case is a 580 CK and his is the next size down. My backhoe was made by Case to fit my tractor. My friend's is an aftermarket unit that is sort of a universal fit type. On his they scrimped on the cylinder size to save money. To get enough power his runs a higher pressure than mine. The upshot is that his machine is more jerky, the smaller high pressure cylinders move quickly and are harder to control. Even though my machine moves as fast as his it is easier to control. We both noticed this. Finally, don't build a machine that has you rotating with the boom. My friend's add on backhoe works like this and all the back and forth wears you out. I LOVE my backhoe. Even though it is pretty worn out it still does a lot of work much faster than I ever could. I bought it to install my septic system. After doing that I have built a road on my property , fixed another road, buried my neighbor's horse, dug the water, power and phone ditches to my house and shop, dug up several big stumps with their associated root systems, and just last weekend planted 7 pretty big cedar trees. All these jobs required the backhoe. And using the backhoe is fun. Using the loader is fun too but there is something cool about being able to dig a hole 10 feet deep in a short time. Watching the dipper rip out big roots in seconds that would take all day to dig and chop out by hand is really cool. Eric

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 6:27:21 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
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e. I may never make one, but I am proceeding on the grounds that I will.
  Quoted Text Here  
do not need a real backhoe. I can really get by with just using a shovel. But a mini backhoe that would be say 3 times as fast as just using a shov el appeals to me.
  Quoted Text Here  
nearly the same as a some what bigger machine. The hydraulic cylinders an d hydraulic valves are the major expense and they would not be significantl y less for a tiny backhoe.
  Quoted Text Here  
with them. Most of the drawings are three dimensional showing all the hidd en lines. And most dimensions are in the text. And the pages all have th e same title block. But I did not pay a lot so can not expect a lot.
  Quoted Text Here  
from the local scrap yard. I am intending to put the engine, hydraulic pu mp, filter and tank as a unit with quick disconnects. So I can remove tha t part and connect it to a log splitter or what ever. And hope to find a b oat trailer at the scrap yard to supply the wheels. I have already bough t some 3/16 rectangular 4 by 3 inch tubing for the booms and chassis. All i n pieces only 4 feet long, but I have a welder. I also have some cut offs of 1 inch rod and some 1" bronze bushings.
  Quoted Text Here  
t a mini backhoe. Good sources for hydraulic cylinders and valves would be nice. The Surplus Center is already bookmarked. Things to avoid would be nice.
  Quoted Text Here  
of using a hydraulic cylinder. It seems like that might be okay to do. Ma ybe have a plan on how to add power to swivel the boom if using my feet is too much work. Or maybe figure out a way to use car clutch and brake parts to swivel the boom. I am sure there will be comments on that idea.
  Quoted Text Here  
You are probably right. My thought was that swinging the boom does not tak e as much power as digging with the bucket or lifting the dirt. So ought t o be able to use a smaller diameter cylinder or use foot power. But using foot power might leave too much work in using the backhoe. I think all the mini backhoes use the same size cylinder for everything. And the swing sp eed is going to be different depending on which way you are swinging. The rod means the piston goes different speeds depending on if it is extending or retracting.
When I was back in Washington my neighbor had a backhoe which I used on a c ouple of occasions. If I build a mini it will not be near as cool, but w ill beat the shovel I have been using.
Dan