mini backhoe

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:00:23 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@krl.org"
That's why virtually ALL real backhoes use 2 cyls for the swing.


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On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>

Not sure how big you're planning on... but there were several youtube videos for the HF version last I looked. It was a couple years ago, I found them interesting. I wouldn't want to go any smaller than those for a home brew.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:01:48 PM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote:

I am figuring on about the same size as the Harbor Freight mini backhoe. Smaller would be about as expensive and less capable. And I really do not need one, much less a bigger one. I have most of the steel already from sc rounging at the local scrap yard. I have some cut offs of 1 inch dia stain less steel. I might go a bit bigger for the boom swivel. I looked at what was available at Fassio's ( a local steel distributor ). And can get hol low bar there. The plans I have use 1 " for the boom swivel, but that see ms small. So may spring for some larger material for the boom swivel.
I am not worried about the ground being too hard as it is clay and easy to dig with a shovel ( except the clay sticks to the shovel. )
Dan
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:33:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Small world. I find mine too light for hard ground, and can't imagine building something lighter unless it was for planting pansies in sand trap. :)
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As heavy as the Case must be it is too light for hard ground. Even really big machines struggle with hardpan. But since I am not making a livung with my backhoe it really doesn't matter. The machine is probably 100 times faster than me when it comes to digging ditches and the like. Especially since I live on glacial till and it is full of rocks of every size and description. Eric
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 08:50:38 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

A hydraulic jack-hammer "stinger" in place of the bucket makes short work of hardpan if ripper jaws won't do the job. Auful hard on equipment though!!!
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:33:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Pretty hard to beat an old Construction King Backhoe Loader unit. They were really DESIGNED as a backhoe
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 23:02:19 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Mine has the Shuttle Shift feature too. And it's gas powered so I don't have to smell diesel fumes. A deisel engine would probably be better but the smell makes me sick to my stomach. Eric
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 08:53:42 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Likewize. I think all CKs had the shuttle shift.
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:32:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

They didn't. My friend's CK oes not. The shuttle shift is weird. There is a torque converter as well as a clutch in the tractor. So to change gears requires stepping on the clutch but forward to reverse and back is just done by moving the lever. I have only the vaguest idea how it all works inside but I love it. I had never even sat on a backhoe when I bought mine. Took some learning to run it passably well. But man, is it ever fun. Eric
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:47:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Shuttle, but no TC on mine. The service manual covers both arrangments. Found both operator and service manuals free online.
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:47:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Every CK we had on the lot back when I worked on industrial equipment had the shuttle so I ASS U MEd it was standard equip
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:32:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I think I remember reading in the manual that some didn't. And the trans on mine indicates a reverse position that doesn't seem to exist. I presume that's there for models without the shuttle. Anyway, I can tell you it's a pain to replace that shuttle gear assembly. Not terribly difficult, just a pain. Sure is nice to have it back working though. How bad are your brakes? Mine look good inside, but are barely adequate to keep the machine from rolling backwards on a 10% grade. I keep the bucket flipped and low in case of emergency. :)
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The brakes are great. No problem locking up the wheels. How can the shuttle shift work without a torque converter? When my CK gets low on transmission fluid it takes forever for it to warm up enough to move. I need to fill it way above the full mark on the dipstick for it to move as soon as I start it. I think it may have the wrong dipstick. Also weird is that the engine NEVER gets low on oil. And it's not gas leaking past the rings keeping the oil level up. It must be a leak between the engine and the transmission unit that is filling the engine very slowly with transmission fluid. I have been having trouble getting the carb adjustment right. Found out why. There is about 1/16" play in the throttle shaft where it goes through the back side of the carb. This winter the carb is coming off so I can rebuild it. Eric
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:30:59 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Are they bands on drums, with a cam assist to a flat plate?

Clutch.

No trans fluid. Just gear oil in the torque tube and trans.

Bummer.

Yeah, I crudely bushed mine and added some o rings to take up space. Runs decent but not perfect, hard to know if it was ever much better. Hand throttle was terrible until I fixed a seized cross shaft linkage for the foot throttle. Took a whole afternoon including some lathe work, but was worth it to have a foot throttle.
Have you seen this?
http://www.earthmoversmagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/093-1024x680.jpg
Mine is not quite so shiny. :) Hoe is different on mine, lift cylinder is buried in the boom.
Oops, just realized I've been talking 530 and you guys 580. That explains why you have brakes, and I have brake simulators. :)
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Do you step on the clutch to use shuttle shift? Mine is just a lever on the steering column. My brakes are the shoe/disc combination. Where the shoe stops one disc from rotating which causes the balls to climb the ramp which presses on the disc. I guess it's a good way to amplify foot pressure in a purely mechanical way. But they are prone to locking up. Eric
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 09:14:10 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Yes. It has a neutral position which I had to use the other day because the transmission won't go into neutral or 1st. I think one of the shift forks has come out of its groove. Couldn't have happened unless something's wrong with the shifter, which wouldn't surprise me. Shuttle cover looks like this https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-530CK-Loader-Backhoes-Parts/No-Description-vg/SHUTTLE-TRANSMISSION-CONTROL-COVER-0WVC/ Left lever is forward-reverse, right lever is high-low range.

On mine the forward reverse shuttle is a mechanical shifter on the top of the torque tube. Here's a parts breakdown of the entire assembly. https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-530CK-Loader-Backhoes-Parts/No-Description-vg/SHUTTLE-GEAR-HOUSING-0WVZ/ I replaced the subassembly 8A. I see that the same thing is used on some 580s.

Sounds like mine is the same arrangement. https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-530CK-Loader-Backhoes-Parts/No-Description-vg/BRAKE-SYSTEM-0WCr/ It's not a shoe though, but a band around a drum. I cleaned everything, lightly greased the balls, and adjusted. It works Ok on the level, but is really crap when I'm pointed up a steep hill and stopped trying to shift gears. I figured it surely must have worked better when new, but a friend who knows these tractors from the old days told me the brakes were never any good. Based on your experience though, I'll give everything a more critical look next time it's apart.
Ed, if you're reading this, please give your opinion on the arrangement. The plate 35 presses against the inside of the housing. It seems to me that the cam/ball/disc thing can only be effective IF the band is effective, which makes it a dubious idea. Ever known anything else that uses such a system?
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Wphew, you're really asking the wrong guy. It looks to me like the balls ride on ramps, and the drum would have to be clutched to a stop (by the band), or nearly so, for the balls to ride up the ramps and put pressure on the discs, right? It looks like the balls are part of a freewheeling clutch.
If I'm reading it right, then I agree: I can't see any other way you could apply pressure to the discs.
Transmissions like this are outside of my realm of experience. However, that balls-riding-up-ramp thing, if that's what it is, is a type of freesheeling/overrunning clutch that has been used in machinery for decades -- maybe 100 years. Saab had one in their original 2-stroke-engine cars, but the balls were arranged around the outside of a cam and pressed against the inside of a wheel, IIRC. Also, if my memory is working, I think that Harleys have a face-ramp type somewhere in their power train.
Such freewheeling clutches are known to be problems when they get worn. But, again, I'm making some guesses based on that vague illustration.
--
Ed Huntress

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On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:45:14 -0400, Ed Huntress

Exactly. I suppose it's supposed to multiply the effect of the band. Except that the band is wimpy, and unless it's gripping sufficiently, there isn't much pressure on the balls and the plate.

It's a very primitive manual brake system. One housing outboard on each side of the transmission. Here are some pics
guts
http://www.hagantractorparts.com/CaseBrakeAssembly.jpg
In this one, you can see the left brake housing just ahead of the rear axle housing. The disc pushes against the outboard face of the housing.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/projects/416216d1426148809-1963-case-530ck-backhoe-loader-img_1620_rs-jpg
Here's one that's a little more true to life. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Jays89YJ/Misc/Tractor0002.jpg Brake housing is just below the guy's hand. Comes off easily, bands stay with the housing. Then the drum with the disc and balls slides off the output shaft. Points given for being easy to work on but it's quite a bit of iron considering the anemic performance.
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It's strange, for a brake. There must have been some considerations that aren't obvious, in order to engineer something like that.
After all, leading-shoe drum brakes will give you all the mechanical "amplification" you want.
--
Ed Huntress

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