Saw abuse! (or: Do I need a plasma cutter?)

I have read that a hand held jig saw can be used to cut through 1/4 inch steel plate for fabrication purposes with reasonable success. So I figured I'd give it a shot; I have a nice jig saw, some plate lifted from the scrap bin at my welding class, plus a fairly new saw blade and some cutting oil. Now I no longer have a new saw blade, as it gave up the ghost REALLY fast. I'm sure the tooth count was wrong, but I figured it'd last longer than a 1/2 inch long cut, especially with cutting oil being used. So here's my question... is a hand held jig saw really an appropriate tool for this task, regardless of what I have read? If so, what sorts of blades would be ideal? I'm guessing a coarser tooth count would be better, but it also seems like the coarser blades are all specifically meant for cutting wood.

I know I could use an oxyacetylene torch for this task, but I'd like a cleaner and more precise cut. Am I rapidly getting into plasma cutter territory? I can envision myself fabricating lots of brackets and frames from 1/4 inch thick steel plate (maybe even thicker someday), and a band saw is pretty much out of the question for my "shop" (i.e. garage) size. Also, I could see myself wanting to branch out into aluminum plate as well, which would inevitably be a substantially thicker piece than 1/4 inch. Has my jig saw met its match, and if so, where's the most economical and versatile direction to go from here?

Reply to
The Hurdy Gurdy Man
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The import horizontal/vertical saws aren't that big, if you can put one on a stand with casters, you could store it under a bench and then wheel it out when you need it. The stand that comes with these is worth replacing anyway.

You may also want to look into a "Sawzall" (tm). Best is the "Super Sawzall" by Milwaukee, but DeWalt and other make reciprocating saws that are similar. While this looks like it wouldn't be that different than a jigsaw, the power of these larger saws does make a significant difference, and is well worth the expense. Also, their overall versatility make them well worth having anyway.

For steel, and mostly straight lines, consider a cut-off wheel in a 4-1/2" grinder. Amazingly useful, if loud and time consuming. I wouldn't use it on aluminum, though. Also, a cut-off blade in a circular saw may also work for this, but I haven't tried it. There was a thread a little while back (I don't remember if it was here or in sci.joining.welding) on special carbide sawblades used in a worm-drive saw to cut steel. A search on groups.google.com should turn up the discussion, or Ernie might chime in with the relevant bits.

Of course, if what you're really asking is, would doing a fair amount of this work justify the cost of a plasma cutter anyway, I say go for it. If nothing else, rent one for a day and see if you like it.

HTH, --Glenn Lyford

Reply to
Glenn Lyford

I have done lots of cutting (steel plate, 16ga. to 1/4 in.). The saw must be variable speed and run slow with moderate and continuous pressure - expect to ruin/break a few blades until you get the hang of it. Get the best metal cutting blades you can find (they are somewhat limited in tpi selection). Al. can be cut with wood rated blades. A full-face shield and gloves are desirable unless you like the feel of a shower of hot chips. Don't expect a blade to last long (a couple of feet in

1/4 in. steel) There are better ways to cut plate but for small jobs the jigsaw often makes good sense. Regards. Ken.
Reply to
Ken Davey

What I did this summer was using a Skil saw, put a 7" metal cutting "chop saw" style blade it in, and saw away. Works great on heavy wall steel tube, so should work on plate if you go slow. Leaves a great edge. Ronnie Lyons Meridian, Idaho

Reply to
Ronnie Lyons, Meridian, Idaho

Thing about a plasma cutter is you need really dry air. Cooling of compressed air, filtering, coalescing filtering at a minimum. Best is the above followed by a desiccant air dryer. All that air processing gear takes up a lot more room than a little bandsaw.

Buy a 4x6 bandsaw. That's what everyone starts with. See the FAQ:

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I also suggest the following as a cheap infeed table:
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You should be able to get both of the above items for under $200 total.

That saw will also cut wood, of course - you just have to go slow.

Grant Erwin

Reply to
Grant Erwin

There are some inconsistencies here. From a jigsaw to a plasma cutter (with the required air compressor) is quite a leap in expense. No volumes/quantities are mentioned, but expanding capabilities and different metals suggests more space will be required, but this all has to fit into a garage.

Have you considered hiring out the cutting at first? Or do you just "want" a plasma cutter and have found a problem which it fits? Is there a profit aspect to this project?

Reply to
Tom Kendrick

I have a space under my bench where such an item could be stored, but that space is currently occupied by my TIG welder. Space really is at a premium at this point... it wasn't originally, but I now have to share space with someone else and that adds complication. I had a nice corner set aside that was just perfect for a sandblasting cabinet and a band saw, but alas, that space now has several bicycles nobody rides stored in it....

If a band saw could be folded up into the space occupied by a small MIG welder on rolling gear then I'd be set, but I see no way of doing that. That's the exact size of space I have available at this point... which would hold a plasma cutter perfectly, but not much else. A dinky little band saw on a really low table would work, but then I'd have to find a way to elevate it up in order to use it. An extraordinarily narrow one on wheels could likely be shoehorned into a corner, but I'll have to see about that... it's a good idea though, and so I'll investigate it further before going down the more expensive road. The cost of a plasma cutter does make me cringe, and the concerns about air dryness are certainly an issue... I don't live in a terribly humid area to begin with, so I would hope I could make use of a small array of air dryers for my compressor and meet with success.

I have a reciprocating saw, I'll have to give it a shot and see how it does for this task. The size makes it sort of awkward and difficult to get an accurate cut, but if it works then I'll just have to find a lower table or something.

I've tried this and didn't really like the results... I don't mind using it on fairly short cuts in materials no more than about an 1/8th of an inch, but for fabricating brackets and things I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with it. Too many bad experiences with the disc locking up in the work!

I must admit that yeah, there's some amount of "gimme an excuse to buy a plasma cutter!" in here. In fact that might be most of it. Still, the need to cut and fabricate thick plates of steel is becoming very real, and I'd like to have it as an option. Thanks for all your suggestions!

Reply to
The Hurdy Gurdy Man

That sounds like an awful lot more trouble than I've heard other plasma cutter users going through, but it does make me wonder about what one can get away with in terms of air dryness for plasma cutter use. I wouldn't be doing constant production with the thing, so is all that additional equipment really necessary? What about the various inline dryers and larger wall mountable dryers I have seen in auto paint supply catalogs? The humidity where I live isn't all that high most of the time (I'm on the outskirts of the high desert in SoCal) and I don't have any real moisture control problems with my compressor as it is, so is there some chance that such a setup can be achieved more economically and with less required floor space?

Reply to
The Hurdy Gurdy Man

Reply to
Jon Grimm

Could you use hooks screwed into rafters to hang these out of the way? A bike hangs down a ways if you have some ceiling height, so this doesn't actually make them that inaccessable.

Not necessarily. I recall at least one person here who started using his without the stand, just set on the floor (I don't remember if casters were used or not) with the intention of building a better stand "someday", and found it was a good enough solution just at that to not bother with the stand. Most power hacksaws I've seen have been very low to the ground, too. Also means you don't need work stands to cut long pieces, just maybe a scrap of 2x or a brick or something...

--Glenn Lyford

Reply to
Glenn Lyford

I don't know what you have for a jig saw, but I just bought one of the newer Milwauke variable speed jobs and have successfully done such cuts. Use a quality bi-metal blade (Bosch or Lenox), slow the speed way down, turn OFF the orbiting feature if your saw has it, use lube, and supply constant firm, but not excessive, pressure. Not terribly fast, but better than a hack saw.

DLG

Reply to
DLGlos

I've proposed this to the others in the house, and it looks like it'd be fine provided I bought and installed the hooks. I can't hang the bikes from the lower rafters because they'll hang down low enough to hit you in the head when you walk by them, so I need some kind of fancy hanging system to hang them from the upper rafters but still have them reachable... back before our local REI store closed they used to have these really cool pulley systems that'd work really well, but I haven't seen those in quite a long time. If I could find something like that I'd be set!

That doesn't sound so bad, I suppose... the bandsaw would be nice as it'll cut wood too, even though I generally avoid wood. Sometimes, though, the need arises to cut really thick sections of wood (for making slappers, for example), and a plasma cutter sure won't help with that!

Reply to
The Hurdy Gurdy Man

Depending on what part of the rafters are reachable, a simple pair of 16d spikes into the side of them will easily support a bike. If there isn't a section of rafter at the necessary height, consider adding a pair of 2x4's nailed to the upper and lower rafters, set apart by the wheelbase of the bike. Grab the bike by the frame, and raise over your head upside down to where you can still reach it, but you won't run your head into it. Note where the uppermost section of the rims cross the 2x4's, and set your spikes there. Total cost: about $2 a bike, and no pulleys necessary. Not terribly elegant, perhaps... :^)

If you want to hang several all in the same rafter space, consider doing the same, but with a pair of ladder brackets, as long as the brackets are small enough to fit between the spokes and catch the tire rims. It would mean shuffling the bikes to get the last one off, though.

--Glenn Lyford

Reply to
Glenn Lyford

|Glenn Lyford wrote: | |> Could you use hooks screwed into rafters to hang these out |> of the way? A bike hangs down a ways if you have some ceiling |> height, so this doesn't actually make them that inaccessable. | |I've proposed this to the others in the house, and it looks like it'd be |fine provided I bought and installed the hooks. I can't hang the bikes |from the lower rafters because they'll hang down low enough to hit you in |the head when you walk by them, so I need some kind of fancy hanging system |to hang them from the upper rafters but still have them reachable... back |before our local REI store closed they used to have these really cool |pulley systems that'd work really well, but I haven't seen those in quite a |long time. If I could find something like that I'd be set!

I saw a variety of bike storage items advertised recently, possibly at the local True Value hardware store. One was the pulley setup as you describe, for $19.95 IIRC Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

Simple solution. Put a sign on your refrigerator for a month that says USE IT OR LOSE IT. Then put the bikes out with a sign that says FREE.

If you have a small shop you HAVE to understand the basics of clutter control. These include:

use it or lose it a place for everything and everything in its place everything has to have a reason to be there things don't magically acquire value even if you've owned them many years space costs money (don't believe me? build a shed ..) put things you use most in the most accessible places and vice versa if you put something in a small drawer or box then LABEL IT let the store store things (don't stock common items you can just go buy)

There is a very good book on this exact subject. It is called "Clutter Control" and I was given it many years ago because I had a terrible packrat problem. I once nearly got killed stopping on a busy freeway to grab a large piece of scrap metal that had fallen from another vehicle. I hauled it home where it sat for years until I sold the house. How stupid. I now know that clutter is a transgenerational behavioral disorder. I've been trying to escape its clutches for over 10 years.

Grant Erwin Kirkland, Washington

Reply to
Grant Erwin

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