T&C grinding - beginner's questions

Hi,
I've got a few plans for T&C grinders, but my questions aren't answered...
Which profile wheel to use? 6 (straight sided cup), or 11 (tapered cup)?
Does the motor need to be reversable?, or is a cheap (but good) bench
grinder sufficient?
If a bench grinder is suitable for the basis of a T&C machine, would a 6" be
better than an 8" machine? (assuming both have speeds less than the maximum
listed on the 6, or 11 wheels)
My plans, depending on the responses here, is to make up an adjustable
platform/jig which presents the tools and cutters to the wheel located on a
suitable grinder motor. The tools I'm planning on using this for include
Lathe bits, mills and drills, slitting saws.
I do not envisage doing thread grinding, or other things i haven't heard of
(I know, but you know what I mean)
Many thanks in advance,
Des Bromilow
Brisbane
OZ
Reply to
Des Bromilow
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Tool & cutter grinders should not be, and are usually not, restricted to a single wheel. Typically they are what could be considered a universal machine that has the capability to sharpen most any type cutter, depending on the accessories that accompany the machine. Having the ability to reverse the wheel head, and to change the speed of the wheels, is important for total flexibility.
T&C machines generally use a wheel that has a 1-1/4" bore. The largest variety of wheels come so equipped, in any and all shapes, hardnesses and bonds. That's important to overall performance. You definitely do NOT want to limit yourself to one wheel, nor do you want a wheel type that mounts without a removable hub. Often times you'll go from a slitting wheel (rebuilding the end of a chipped end mill by cutting it off and then gashing it to form the new end before sharpening, for example) to various grinding wheel configurations to perform the next step of the grinding operation, what ever it may be.. By having removable hubs, you don't have to mount and true the wheel with each change. A selection of wheels and hubs are kept as units, so making the change takes only seconds, and the wheel is ready for use.
Cutter grinders don't replace cylindrical grinders well, but they have a far superior performance level than the typical pedestal grinder. Unless you could be happy with a reduced performance level, I'd suggest you put your interests towards finding a used cutter grinder, not towards building one from random parts. There are many features in cutter grinders that would be very difficult for you to duplicate, severely limiting the ability of the machine to be of much use to you. I think if you'll explore a commercial machine, even a simple one, you'll come to understand what I'm saying. There are small units that are capable of limited application, so there's an exception to this advice, but you'll give up a lot of features and capabilities by choosing a lesser machine. It all depends on what your expectations are.
Accessories for cutter grinders make all the difference in the world. Owning a cutter grinder without accessories is no better than owning a pedestal grinder.
You mentioned thread grinding. Thread grinders are very expensive machines that have capabilities far beyond a cutter grinder. One would not have the ability to grind threads on a cutter grinder, nor would it have the necessary precision.
I realize this isn't much encouragement, but it is sound advice.
Harold
Reply to
Harold & Susan Vordos
Right on.
I'll add that they are GIVING T&C grinders away. There's not near the commercial use that there used to be. A good scrounge (Gunner) can find one way cheap.
If you're in to build your own, there's a project called the quorn were you buy the castings and get plans. NOT a small project but real cute little machine. I've seen pics of completed ones at the NAMES show.
I have a T&C grinder - very useful item to have in the shop.
Karl
Reply to
Karl Townsend
Sound advice, but...
What are your needs? I suspect you won't need all the features of a full blown T&C grinder.
I have a Gorton grinder I paid $125 for. It was originally for single lip gravure cutters. I modified the work holder to accept various tooling and it does what I need it to. It is similar to this one:
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The quorn is nice, but overly complicated if you don't need all the features, and the castings are expensive!
Roy Hauer made an outstanding looking grinder. You can see it here:
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sure to look at the rest of his stuff, too!
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his is not a full blown T&C grinder, it would be easy to modify as you need for different tasks.
Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
Reply to
Ron Thompson
If you are going to use a bench grinder as the basis for your grinder, make sure there is no endplay in the shaft. You do not want to have your grinding wheel moving back and forth while you are working. Plus you will have to machine an adapter to fit the 1-1/4 center holes on most T&G wheels. I find the type 11 wheels the most usefull for cutter grinding, but if you are going to do a lot of roughing then the straight sided wheels may be better. No doubt you will end up with a selection eventually.
R>>>I realize this isn't much encouragement, but it is sound advice. >>
Reply to
Machineman
Get the book too. First half is building it, the second half is how it is used. Sure has been an education for me.
Paul
Paul in AJ AZ
Reply to
Pep674
Guy Lautard sells plans and castings for a simplied t/c grinder, the Tinker.
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Paul in AJ AZ
Reply to
Pep674
HSM magazine and it's companion magazines have had lots of articles on building T&C grinders.
See
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and search for "Tool and Cutter grinder"
Randy
Reply to
Randal O'Brian
If one is just looking for a book to cover the basics of T&C grinding, you would do worse than to look for a book from K. O. Lee company titled "Instruction Manual -- A Handbook For Use With K. O. Lee Universal Grinders And Tool And Cutter Grinders". I found one of those to be invaluable when starting out. What really helped me, though, was taking a class at a tech college where the instructor knew how to use a T&C grinder, and so I learned quite a bit from him. I'm still a rank newbie but now at least I know my way around sharpening the end of an end mill or a reamer. I'm still working on learning about the periphery part.
I have a real T&C grinder, though. I would never want to try this on a little machine. My machine is pretty massive, maybe 3000 pounds, and it only has a little 1 hp motor on top. I think the spindle is reversible but I don't know why you'd need that. You can probably reverse the spindle on a surface grinder too but that would tend to loosen the nut holding on the wheel, so why would you ever?
Grant Erwin
Reply to
Grant Erwin
Sigh...I want one so bad I can taste it...and am having zip luck finding any that is either not so badly worn to be unusable, or priced out of my reach.
"A vote for Kerry is a de facto vote for bin Laden." Strider
Reply to
Gunner
That's more in keeping with my thoughts. While industry may be phasing them out, there should be a strong demand for them by guys like us, and small shops that may not be using all insert tooling. A well equipped cutter grinder is a wonderful addition to any shop. Finding one that is reasonably priced is difficult, but it's even more difficult to find one that is equipped well enough to be useable.
Harold
Reply to
Harold & Susan Vordos
There are thousands of production shops that dont use insert tooling. Id have to hazard to guess and say the majority of parts turned today are done on cemented carbide tools.
Screw machines seldom use inserts. The tooling is cut, sharpened and formed on TC grinders.
Gunner
"A vote for Kerry is a de facto vote for bin Laden." Strider
Reply to
Gunner
If anyone on the left coast wants a KO Lee T&C a friend has asked me to sell his. It's well tooled and priced about $1200.,but I will have to verify the accessory tooling and the price. Leigh@MarMachine
Reply to
Leigh Knudson

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