Fluoropolymers for Architectural Coatings

What's your application? Hard to make any useful comments without knowing what you're doing...

P

look at DuPont's Tedlar:

if any of this stuff is cheap. Frank

Actually, FEVE's have slightly inferior weathering to PVDF/acrylic paints. In the USA, these paints are available from PPG, Valspar, Akzo Nobel, and BASF. Please note that PVDF/acrylics are factory applied finishes (that is, they are coated on metal by coil or spray coating methods then baked in a oven prior to installation of the panels in the field). If you need a field applied finish on an existing building, then you have to stick with FEVE's like Lumiflon (sold by PPG as Megaflon in the USA).

PVDF resins are available from Solvay Solexis (as Hylar 5000) and AtoFina (as Kynar 500) and have demonstrated more than 35 years excellent weathering performance. PVDF/acrylic paints are about 3 to

4 x cheaper than FEVE-based paints. FEVE weathering is worse due to the high content of hydrocarbon monomers (lower fluorine content than PVDF).

If you need more information, you should contact the paint companies mentioned above. If your application is not a paint but instead a film or other type of dry coating method, then you should contact Solvay Solexis or AtoFina for assistance in selecting an appropriate coating system. Someone else mentioned Du Pont's Tedlar film which is PVF (polyvinylfluoride). It has less fluorine than PVDF and has been shown to have significantly worse weathering performance than PVDF.

- Bill

Phil: As someone mentioned, without knowing your application, it's hard to provide useful input. Having said that, you are probably talking about powder coatings, where FEVE is the only commercially available fluorocarbon for 30+ year durability in architectural applications. FEVE powder is a factory applied finish and is often used on prefabricated building components. You can visit the following link to learn more about Spraylat's new FEVE based powder product (Newlar) which is available in a variety of colors.

Akzo also offers an FEVE based powder called "Interpon D3000" (see Other companies also sell similar FEVE powders.

Other fluorocarbon based powder coatings include Ausimont's ECTFE (tradename Hylar I believe), PTFE (available from DuPont & Asahi Glass) and DuPont's PVF (tradename Tedlar, already mentioned). However, these products may not have sufficiently good weathering characteristics for architectural paints.

Tribo

Phil - I hope we're not diverting the discussion away from your original question, but I'd like to comment on some of the points Bill makes.

Yes, in general, fluoropolymer powders have not yet taken off as expected, although as I've indicated, FEVE powders are gaining momentum. I had not mentioned PVDF powders since I'm not aware of any commercial applications or any efforts by producers to promote them. I know there was a company in Florida (don't recall their name) who introduced a PVDF based powder product, but apparently it didn't work out, most likely due to performance issues. I'm not aware of any others.

Tribo

Bill & Tribo - you guys sound like you really know what you're talking about. I really appreciate the help!

Since I've got no experience with fluoropolymer paints, let me make sure I've got this right so I make the best decision. Let's say I formulate a 70% fluorpolymer based paint (FEVE or PVDF). What I'm hearing is that the FEVE based paint cost 3-4x that for PVDF based paint. I'll assume the raw material cost is proportionate. So that would put PVDF at $4-5/lb (vs $15/lb for FEVE). From experience, I know acrylics are dirt cheap, so the cost of the dispersion would be ~$3-4/lb. Assuming the powder costs 3-4x(??) as much as the dispersion, the powder would cost maybe $12-15/lb. Is that how it works?

Thanks Phil

I'm also hearing that powders are much more expensive than

PVDF is normally formulated with 30% acrylics. This gives optimum properties in terms of adhesion (natural PVDF won't stick to metal so well), pigment dispersion in the paint, and physical characteristics of the coating (impact resistance, etc.). FEVE's do not use acrylic because they are already about 50% of functional hydrocarbon monomers that give the same effects of acrylic in a PVDF paint. This is also why FEVE's have somewhat inferior weathering compared to PVDF/acrylic (higher hydrocarbon content, lower fluorine content so faster photodegradation).

I can't precisely confirm the prices you listed. You need to speak with the paint companies that formulate PVDF/acrylic and FEVE's into paints. As I recommended earlier, try PPG, Akzo Nobel, BASF, and Valspar.

For powder prices, you can check with the various suppliers noted earlier in the thread. PVDF powders will be the least expensive and things like FEVE, ETFE, ECTFE, etc. will be much higher as powder coatings.

- Bill

Consider 21st Century Coatings - they market fluorinated urethane coatings originally developed buy the Navy.

Thanks very much for the suggestion. I visited the website which claims their WC5 product has a potential lifetime of 30 years.

Does anyone have experience with these fluorinated urethanes? How does price compare vs the FEVE & PVDF powders & dispersions?

Thanks Phil

Someone was saying that you could use PVDF resins to produce powder coatings. Apparently, one U.S. company now offers the PVDF powders themselves according to this press release:

Atofina Chemicals' Kynar 500 resin now available as powder coating from Rohm & Haas Atofina Chemicals Inc has granted a Kynar 500 licence to Rohm & Haas Co for the production of powder coatings using Kynar 500 PC PVDF resin. The licence grants Rohm & Haas the authority to formulate powder coatings in a palette of colours using a minimum of 70% Kynar PVDF resin from Atofina Chemicals Inc and market these powder coatings under the Kynar 500 PC trademark. The proven performance of Kynar 500 coatings will soon be available to the powder coatings market. Kynar

500 resin-based liquid coatings have a long history of reliability and weathering resistance in architectural uses like roofing, spandrels and curtain walls. Headquartered in Philadelphia, PA, Atofina Chemicals Inc produces high-performance chemicals and polymers.

There's another supplier of PVDF based powder coatings:

pvdfpowders.com

Admittedly, I'm no internet expert, but I wasn't able find the url

(maybe it went out of business).

I did a fair bit of checking, but Rohm & Haas (I guess they used to be Morton) seems to be it for PVDF powders. None of the paint companies seem to offer.

If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

Thanx Phil

The url sure works when I click on it. Don't know why it doesn't work for you. They're in business.