Engine experts riddle me this

Well said, except that nobody gives a hoot about meeting advertised manufacturer's specifications. What is important is that motors continue to meet the certified motor performance specifications. Although, it would be nice if say an Estes C6 motor actually delivered

10.00 N-s...

Alan

builds a

otherwise

Correct.

Correct.

I've already proved that your "born regulated" theory is untrue. (Smokeless and BP are "born regulated" yet have exemptions at the user level.) Besides, the discussion above is about amateur rocketry/EX, and the ATF says you don't need an LEMP to make motors for your own non-commercial use.

Correct. But no transfer or discharge is taking place. The person who made the motor is the one loading and launching the motor. It just happens to be in a rocket built by another person.

Jerry, you're so full of it, you're like a septic tank with legs. There's nothing in the regs that says someone can't _watch_ someone launching a rocket.

Thanks Bob. Mainly I was curious as to why they would change the nozzle diameter and what they had to do to basically get the same performance so that it retained it's designation as an A8.

Randy

Apparantly you have never been to an EX launch in OR or MD, etc.

Jerry

I've never seen you at an MD launch. Have you ever been to one? If not, how do you know what goes on?

Jerry (and Dave W), here's what ATF says about it:

This is ATF's interpretation of the regs. It's almost completely contrary to the actual regs and the judge's earlier ruling, but it's what the ATF enforces. TRA and NAR are suing to force the ATF to comply with the regs and stop this incorrect interpretation and unlawful enforcement.

"Unfortunately, our system of laws is set up so that an agency's own interpretation of its regulations is valid unless you show it to be otherwise. You do that by convincing a court that the agency's interpretation is arbitrary, capricious or without authority." -- Harold Gilliam, Skylighter Inc.

The judge ALREADY RULED (ie a court order) their interpretation can be ignored with impunity.

Live the court ordered, regulatory compliant LIFESTYLE.

Or shut up while smart people do.

Moron.

Jerry

But erases everything that preceeds it.

1. Liar. Zero examples.

1. If you BELIEVE that, I sure hope you have a valid LEUP for EACH AND EVERY over 62.5g reloadable flight you have done in the past 3 years, some PUBLISHED in a magazine.

And won and YOU refuse to enjoy that.

And want to STOP me from my continued enjoyment of it for the past 4 decades.

Asshole.

,

"Commerce

The judge's second ruling contradicted his previous ruling, so it's not that clear-cut.

The court ruling is a recent developement. ATF has had these policies in place for a very long time. So the question is, how is it that you supposedly got the OK from ATF to manufacture high power rocket motors without ATF permits?

Al's Hobbies is a good recent example.

I believe that speeding is against the law, but I still do it. What I don't do is claim that speeding is legal, or that I somehow got special dispensation from my local CHP officer that permits me to speed.

We've won a small, partial victory, which I certainly do enjoy and make the most of -- but the lawsuit's not over yet.

Nope. I just want you to stop lying and blaming TRA for your problems. You can't get your motors certified because you don't have manufacturing permits required by ATF, nor the DOT approvals required for shipping. If you don't like ATF or DOT policies, blame ATF/DOT.

.

Nice snip to change the context and ignore the real point, as usual.

I snipped to make the NEW real point.