Historical Question: German armor in Normandy on june 6th

The only armour that the American paratroopers would have encountered on June 6th were from the Panzer Ersatz und Ausbilding Abteilung (Armoured Replacement and Training Battalion) 100 and possibly but highly doubtful by the 7th the Panzer battalion 206. Both of these units were equipped with captured 1940 French equipment. ref. The Panzers and the Battle of Normandy.

regards

John

Thank you. I'll have to pick up that book. Anyone know of any pictures of these captured vehicles? Andrew Nelles

I just did up a listing for a forthcoming issue of FSM on what was actually there behind the beaches. I think many of the Panther/Tiger fans are going to be highly disappointed as they were not there, and most of the armor present was third-rate captured stuff.

I think they have the issue set for June to match the 60th Anniversary of D-Day.

Cookie Sewell AMPS

Ooops goofed and sent my response directly to AMPS not the group as intended. My apologies as I am only now starting to find my way around newsgroups. I intended to say:

The Panther and Tiger fans might be, especially those looking at the American area but the British and Canadians had plenty of Panthers. In the American sector you had a mixture including several French models, early and late Mark IVs, and Mark IIIs plus self-propelled guns.

As far as I can tell the American's likely did not encounter a Panther until the last week of July and a Tiger until mid-August. Poor bloody Brits, Canucks, and Poles.

regards

Yes, I got it directly.

But after some cross-checking none of the tanks noted arrived on 6 June, mostly due to the fact that they were held in reserve.

Most of the tanks faced were third-rate, but there were a good number of Marders and other SP AT guns there.

Cookie Sewell

Thanks for all the info, hmm maybe I'll change the dio to a few weeks later, lol, and have a SP gun replace the tank.

On a side note, maybe this should be a sperate post but, I am working with some friends to create a warhammer 40K style game using 1:35 WW2 figures and armor. We have basic rules laid out. Now working on a campaign for the normandy era. What books can you reccomend that would cover what german units were present in normandy and what types of armor, AT guns, SP guns, vehicles, etc. were around at the time. Same goes for US forces, my knowledge ends at what divisions were involved.

Thanks in advance. Andrew Nelles

I stand corrected. The earliest there could have been a Panther engagement was the 7th when the much hated Meyer and the 12th SS-Panzer Regiment arrived. Most of what I can find in German views seem to indicate that any Panthers were used in a supporting role until late on the 7th or early on the 8th. I have ignored the Allies' accounts as tank id'ing was not a strong suit when you are trying to avoid being killed.

The 21st Panzer Division seems to have existed of mainly mark IVs with some Somua S-35. plus self-propelled guns.

Do you have a good reference for the tank-hunter units? Those were the most valuable in the bocage although the Germans did note that the Churchill and various cruiser tanks had the least trouble moving through the bocage. It is too bad the 6 pdr had been removed in favour of a 75mm gun.

regards

Sam

Sam,

Steve Zaloga did one up but I can't recall what for. He sent me a copy of the listing and most of the units were attached to the divisions in contact with the Allies.

Cookie Sewell

Off the top of my head I would suggest the Campaign series from Osprey Military.

books are written with the war gamer in mind. The series can build up to serious $ so look for them used or on sale. Details are not quite up to what I want and there are errors, most tend to be omissions, but they should provide you with enough detail.

There is a published book on the German order of battle but I can not recall its exact title or its author. I have read Keegan's Six Armies in Normandy, it is on my list. There is Decision in Normandy by d'Este. For the German perspective there is Invasion They're Coming by Paul Carell. That is an English translation of a German book and provides a German perspective.

There are books that concentrate specifically on specific types of units, like Panzers, Tigers, Panthers, SS Regiments, Canadian, Polish, Airborne...... Some are good and some are a waste of money except maybe for that one unique photo of specific AFV or aircraft or unit badge.

regards