Vintage electrical machines

Hi all,
I know this is slightly off-topic, and I'm ready for the accusations of heresy, but is there anyone here interested in vintage electrical
machines? I have quite an enthusiasm for them.
I'll include some pictures of one of my latest projects, and my current favourite electrical machine. This is a 2.5 hp electric motor built in 1931 by Laurence, Scott & Electromotors Ltd. I rescued it from a demolition site last year. Overall it's in good condition. Just needs new brass pipes for the grease cups, a good clean and a few coats of paint.
The motor and data plate:
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_elec_motor.jpg
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_data.jpg
I estimate that it took about 3 tons of force to remove the pulley so that I could dismantle the motor:
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_pulley.jpg
The inside of the motor and the hand-made rotor:
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_inside.jpg
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_rotor.jpg
After stripping the paint and coating with "Vactan" rust treatment:
http://www.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt22/lse_vactan.jpg
After the last photograph was taken I stopped work for a month or two, and I noticed a few tiny spots of rust appearing through the Vactan rust treatment. I've found this treatment to be good in the past, but I wasn't very pleased about this. I can't decide whether to strip it again and re-coat with Vactan, strip and coat with red oxide, or just paint over it and not worry. Any thoughts?
By the way, the motor is destined for a rotary phase convertor for workshop tools. Should be done by the winter I hope.
Best wishes,
Chris
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Fire away, I don't think you will find too many objections! I rather regret not buying an old rectifier of the synchronous motor driven commutator type I saw at a sale a while ago.
--
NHH




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No complaint's from me neither, If it moves I'm interested.
See my Handle.
Martin P

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campingstoveman wrote:

Do you collect vintage camping stoves? How about vintage greenhouse heaters? I have one of those old green "Aladdin" paraffin heaters. Not rusty, but in fairly rough condition with a broken mica window. Needs a complete repaint, or maybe good for spares. Free to anyone who wants it.
Best wishes,
Chris
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I have an Aladdin 'Blue Flame' and a Valor - sad the things we hoard isn't it!
--
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Yes I do collect Camping Stoves, I have 40 + and very few doubles. My Brother and I were wondering around the Dorset Steam Fair and saw a stove and thought it would go well with our 1969 Bedford CA Camper then we saw another and another and.....................
Martin P

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You should supply us all with a crib sheet of wants, Martin. The number of times I see old stoves at events & think "I wonder if Martin's got that one."
Regards,
Kim Siddorn

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I've never used Vactan, always sworn by Jenolite.
If it was me, as you've got this far but not actually painted it, I'd reproof it & then get a coat of primer on it ASAP. Worth it in the long run - you know you want to ......... ;o))
As to OT - well, I suppose so, but I collect Cold War avionics & antique electrical laboratory equipment. I always display some at stationary engine rallies & get a lot of interest, sometimes more than in the engines! There's a broad Church here, Chris.
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
Diplomacy done, plates spun, fires fought, maidens eaten - well, three out of four ain't bad

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Kim Siddorn wrote:

I have a bottle of Jenolite. I bought it a few months ago but haven't tried it yet. So when you use Jenolite, you strip the metal as best you can, then paint Jenolite on, then use primer on top, is that right? What primer do you use?
Best wishes,
Chris
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The original Jenolite was good stuff, when I help restore "Mary Alice" B17G at Duxford we used to use it by the bucket load for taking the corrosion away from aluminium before we etch primed and painted the parts.
Martin P

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That's about it. I'd rub the existing surface down with (say) 400 grit Wet & Dry, wash it off with water & let it air dry. Any exposed ferrous areas will rust slightly & this will key the Jenolite. Paint on a coat, allow to dry & just rub off the residue with a sticky cloth. The rust will be stopped in its tracks & the dried residue will prevent further rusting.
Prime with a primer of your choice, paint as required ;o))
Regards,
Kim Siddorn

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Kim Siddorn wrote:

Thanks. Any preference for primer yourself? Some people seem to prefer zinc oxide, some red oxide, and some grey primer. It's funny that I've used Vactan outdoors myself, then been slow to overcoat and it hasn't rusted, but I do it indoors and it rusts! I wonder if the stuff goes off? I can't say as I've done a complete systematic evaluation in order to develop a clear preference for primer yet, but I've had minor problems with both red oxide primer and Vactan. I've heard that zinc oxide primer has good rust resistance, and zinc oxide is the one I haven't tried yet, so perhaps it's time to give it a go.
Best wishes,
Chris
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On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:27:00 +0000, Christopher Tidy

Personally I don't usually use rust converters, I don't use plain phosphoric acid, and I don't pay Jenolite's prices!
Phosphoric acid works by _converting_ rust into something more stable. But it doesn't make it go away, so if you want that surface to be firm and flat, you're going to have to do something else mechanical to it first.
The results of a phosphoric acid converter are somewhat permeable, so they're likely to rust again. You get a better less-permeable result by using a mixture of phosphoric acid and tannates, which is usually opaque white in colour rather than clear or pink. Most good engineering suppliers will have this, from a range of makers. A gallon usually costs about as much as a couple of tiny Jenolites from a car shop..
If you're using phosphoric acid, then use it as concentrated as possible. This encourages conversion and reduces corrosion (You are after all pouring acid onto metal - there's more than one reaction going on here, and you want to optimise the good one over the bad). Glacial phosphoric can be bought cheaply from hydroponics (dope growing) shops.
If you want a gel, just thicken it with any sort of cellulose - wallpaper paste or metamucil.
Personally I just don't hold with rust and don't have it around. Anything rusty takes a dip in the electrolysis tank and gets cleaned to bare metal properly. It's dead easy and the results are vastly better than simple converters.
As a primer, there's not much to touch a good zinc primer. The heavier it is, the better (simply more zinc). Try Davids 182. For a non-zinc primer, Finnegan's brown one isn't bad.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

Thanks for the recommendations. I had wondered about electrolytic de-rusting, but it isn't really practical for a motor. I would worry about damaging the windings. I will try it for other components, though. It's one of those things I've been meaning to try for a while. Any idea where I might buy that Davids 182 primer? The only place I could find it online didn't actually have it available when I got to the site.
Best wishes,
Chris
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I've been experimenting with electrolytic rust removal for a while now, and have had some amazing results. Not suitable for electrical stuff as you say, and I don't know about the effects on non-ferrous metals yet.
I have found that it frees off rusted components quite quickly and without any risk of damage.
I have a water but in the garden and leave things in there for days/weeks. When I emptied it after de-rusting two very old leaf springs there was around an inch and a half of rust sediment in the bottom.
The beauty of it is that there is no dangerous chemicals involved.
Next step is to find a better power supply.
Alan
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:43:06 +0000, Christopher Tidy

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Algernon wrote:

What power supply are you using? I was thinking of using the in-built battery charger on my arc welder. It's supposed to be able to give up to 75 A DC. Problem is that one of the diodes has blown, and I am not overly eager to open the tank and go fiddling in the oil to replace it, so at the moment the battery charger is non-functional. If it was functional I would probably have tried this method some time ago.
Chris
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I started with an old battery, and that seemed to give the best results so far. Current is fairly low, and obviosly higher voltage would improve things. I've looked at plating transformers and they seem to be fairly low voltage although I suspect this is to limit the rate of deposition to improve finish. As that is not an issue when de-rusting I will try higher voltage to speed thngs up.. I am now using an old CB radio 10 amp power supply. It seems to work, but I suspect I may have too much AC ripple.
I have thought of using an old arc welding transformer, but haven't done it yet..
I would suggest hooking things up to an old car battery as a starting point for experiments. Washing soda is cheap so as long as you can get a big enough butt size is not an issue.
For small itmes (nuts bolts etc., I put them in a chip basket.
All I can suggest is give it a go. I found very basic info at:_
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html
Let me know how you get on
Alan
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:20:23 +0000, Christopher Tidy

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Christopher Tidy wrote:

Scrapbox transformers, simple car battery chargers, (scary) computer PSU (I don't recommend this, especially not at 200A !) Lidl were selling suitable 5A PSUs last week for under a tenner.

Watch the voltage. Over 12V is too much. Too much gas generation, no better for de-rusting.

Good way to kill yourself. Anything over 2A is unusually specialised and only to be attempted with extreme care.
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On 23 Jun 2006 06:26:25 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com wrote:

I don't think 2A is at all unusual, we handle 200A DC regularly on our chargers, albeit at 29V, but 50A at 110V is a regular (had one in today from EWS) and 150A at 600V has been the highest so far.
Current won't hurt you, it's the voltage behind it that does the damage.
Going back to the electrolysis issue, there's a lot of info on one of the American websites, I'll check out some url's tonight at home.
Current against area matters, if you have a large area to derust then you will need extra amperage unless you are prepared for a long wait.
Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk http://www.prepair.co.uk
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I'm sorry but I have to comment on such a dangerously wrong statement, it takes as little as 10mA of AC current through the heart to cause fibrillation which usually results in death. Voltage is the driving force behind current but it is the current that kills, if the body is in a particularly low impedance state such as when the skin is wet it only takes a relatively small voltage to produce a potentially lethal current, on the other hand if the body is dry the same voltage could be harmless as it produces little current. It's the current that matters not the voltage, and the path the current takes is fundamental to the danger, a current through the heart is very dangerous but one across the hand for example is far less dangerous.
Greg
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