Braze or solder copper refrigerant lines to fittings

It seems like the two primary methods for connecting copper to copper
refrigerant lines to fittings are either Sil Phos 15 brazing rod or
Stay Brite silver solder.
I've done gas welding and some plumbing soldering jobs but would only
rate myself as a novice.
Which method is easier for a novice to do reliably? (Sil Phos or
Staybrite silver solder.)
I plan to do lots of practice on scrap copper pipe and fittings until
I'm proficient. I'd like to know which method is easier to learn and
do reliably so I have a good starting point.
For brazing copper lines (3/8 to 1-1/8" in diameter) what oxy/acet tip
do you prefer to use. (small rosebud??) Will a Turbo Torch w/ #4
tip and MAPP gas braze using Sil Phos 15? What about the Quick
Braze?? Is it worth getting??

Reply to
henny
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------------------------------------- henny wrote:
I was told by a heating and cooling repairman (who has lied to me more than once) and his boss that torch brazing copper tubing does not require the tubes to be cleaned or fluxed because the high temperature along with a 'special silver soder' will eliminate all oxidization, oils, etc... Any comments???
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Reply to
cz111
The 15% silver braze sticks I bought years ago said they were "self fluxing". But, I have never taken the chance that they might be mistaken.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
Stay Brite is wonderful for brand new copper, from the parts house. Flows at a lot lower temperature than stick braze. The Stay Brite goes from solid to liquid almost instantly, and runs out of voids. When fittings are very closely fitted, then it works well, by capillary action.
Stick braze will work much better than old copper. Stick braze requires a heck of a lot hotter temps, but the fill seems a bit better than Stay Brite.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
cz11123_at_gmail_dot snipped-for-privacy@foo.com (cz111) wrote in news:en0mk.25$F snipped-for-privacy@textfe.usenetserver.com:
ALWAYS clean your parts as well as possible. Contamination can prevent proper adhesion (wetting, bonding, et al). Flux (phosphorous in phos-copper filler) can "absorb" contamination but there is a limit. Too much contamination will "consume" the flux and you will get a poor joint. How much contamination is "too much"? Usually, the amount that remains when you decide to take a shortcut and don't clean really well.
Reply to
Dev Null
Whatttt?? You gotta be kidding. This is for copper brazed AC lines? I do hope you ran some nitrogen through those lines. Dammit Steve, Your Apprentice is running Amok., ** Posted from
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Reply to
Petre
Holy Crap,
What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE, yadda, yadda.... That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
- Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean em' off with a dry 'clean rag'. - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
Bob's your uncle....
Reply to
Jman
That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B Dated 11/12/98 states not to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units. Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering devices, strainers, and feeder tubes. Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units MUST be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material such as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
Reply to
KJPRO
Man, You're quoting regs from 10 years ago ! You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also, where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is 'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/ outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?...... Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
Reply to
Jman
Man, You're quoting regs from 10 years ago ! You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also, where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is 'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/ outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?...... Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
where you been. Did you wag school when they were teaching how to braze refrig lines. Just read the install manual from any manufacturer
e.g Daikin
CAUTION TO BE TAKEN WHEN BRAZING REFRIGERANT PIPING
.Do not use flux when brazing refrigerant piping. Therefore, use the phosphor copper brazing filler metal
(BCuP-2: JIS Z 3264/B-Cu93P-710/795: ISO 3677) which does not require flux..
(Flux has extremely harmful influence on refrigerant piping systems. For instance, if the chlorine based flux is
used, it will cause pipe corrosion or, in particular, if the flux contains fluorine, it will damage the refrigerant oil.)
 Before brazing local refrigerant piping, nitrogen gas shall be blown through the piping to expel air from the
piping.
If you brazing is done without nitrogen gas blowing, a large amount of oxide film develops inside the piping,
and could cause system malfunction.
 When brazing the refrigerant piping, only begin brazing after having carried out nitrogen substitution or
while inserting nitrogen into the refrigerant piping. Once this is done, connect the indoor unit with a flared
or a flanged connection.
 Nitrogen should be set to 0.02 MPa with a pressure-reducing valve if brazing while inserting nitrogen into
the piping.
Reply to
Dave + Gloria
Man, You're quoting regs from 10 years ago ! You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also, where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is 'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/ outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?...... Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
It has *nothing* to do with "regs", it has to do with manufacturers instructions and good engineering practices. BTW... the customer pays for *EVERYTHING*
Reply to
Noon-Air
No reputable HVAC tech will use soft solder on refrigerant lines. Too many fatigue and leak issues.
Jman wrote:
Reply to
RoyJ
What part of having various issues with leaks do you not understand?
Storm> "leak issues". I've got enough trouble without trying to mix metaphors. Save
Reply to
RoyJ
Bwahahahaha !!!
in his case - ALL OF THEM !!!!!!
Dude - you don't know him. Stormy is 'the hack from hell', the one who never learns.
Reply to
.p.jm
Crazy would be using soft lead solder to do refrigeration work.
Careful out there, there are a lot of people that can hurt you.
Reply to
Tom M
When you speak, vaguely, using buzz words. You use up air time, or in this case bandwidth. But you really don't say anything useful. Try being specific, and maybe you will use your time effectively.
To answer your question: All of your vague writing is not understood.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon

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