vertical butt fillet weld

Hi everyone

I need advice on doing vertical welds "sealing" between two vertical butting plates. The welds I am getting are rather uneven in profile, thickening and thinning along the weld. Not at all an even bead.

I was told recently that a weld-run joining two butting plates with square edge (no preparation), no gap and no intention towards full penetration is called a fillet weld, even though it is not "in a corner". So the overall shape of the weld is the same as a bead-on-plate weld deposit...

In my work I often have to do vertical welds joining two butting pieces. An example is welding a piece of angle-iron to a vertical box-section tube.

BBBBB B B B B B B B B AAAAAA B B A B B A side-view B B A B B A B B B B B B B B B B B

This is equivalent to the "pure" case of fillet-welding the vertical seam between two butting plates, isn't it?


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The company uses only 6013 (rutile) welding rods. I'd chose 7018 myself, but all welders are AC.

Any hints on how to get a good even bead? Preferably rising out from the plate so that all strength can be assumed to be in the above-plate bead cross-section (no assumption of penetration required).

Thanks in advance

Richard Smith

Reply to
Richard Smith
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Try switching to some 7014, It should run fine on AC and gets better penetration than 6013.

Reply to
Ernie Leimkuhler

Hi Richard, i wont comment on your rods because im not familiar with the designations, but machine settings are critical. If you feel like you have to 'catch up' with the bead then probably your rods need changing to a different type or you need to adjust your machine.... when its all right, its a lot easier to weld, and getting the right setting can be tricky! most people have trouble because they set too hot.

for gun technique, its trickier with stick than with mig in my opinion because you cant see whats going on under the slag. When im trying to do my best stick vertical up, i use my left hand holding the end of the rod, and the right hand holding the rod holder. i use really good thick kevlar gloves, this technique wont work as well with thin gloves. i rest my left pinky on the workpiece, and hold the rod between my thumb and pointer at a set distance from the workpiece - this proveds a 'pivot'. The point of the pivot is important, you can work it out from trial and error though. Then the left hand stays where it is... its a fixed pivot, it doesnt really aim the rod at all. The aiming is done by the right hand swinging from left to right. With this technique, the rod remains at all times perpendicular to the point that the arc is contacting the workpiece.

I find this technique gives a bit more control, and a more consistent bead because even quite a large variation in the swing of the right hand translates into only a very small variation in the aiming of the rod, provided the pivot stays at the same distance from the workpiece. I use a simple 'left to right' weave, no christmas tree or anything like that. You want to spend very little time in the middle - its filled up by the pool dropping in to the center. If you find that your bead is prouder then you want, it means that you are spending too much time in the middle - aim for a faster transition from left to right. my basic pattern is hold left for maybe a second, flick to right quickly, hold at right for one second, flick to left quickly, hold at left for one second.... you get the idea. Ive rarely seen someone who transitions too quickly, but the result is a bead thats hollow in the middle. while holding at the side, watch the middle of the bead. when its filled up enough, flick to the other side and keep your eyes always on the middle. you do have to make an allowance for the slag, but youll get used to it after a few trial runs.

for the vertical movement, most people step up too high. I aim to have my next step up burning half into the bead bellow it.... allowing for the slag as well, that means a very small step up! big steps up translate to a very coarse looking bead, while small steps mean a very fine one. with smaller steps though, you do have to move quicker because it takes less time to fill up. So you may have increase your speed if you have previously been a big stepper.

finally, i find that keeping the rod facing slightly upwards helps a bit. keep practicing and you'll soon have a vertical up thats effortless and neat - people will wonder how you manage it.


Reply to
Shaun Van Poecke

A weld done on a tight butt joint is simply a partial penetration groove weld. Its strength is limited by the throat of the weld and often the notch at the root of the weld is a stress riser. In many cases these limitations are unimportant. If you are lapping a piece of angle onto the surface of a tube it indeed is a fillet weld on a lap joint. Shaun's advice to increase the frequency of your vertical motion at the same time as increasing vertical travel rate is what I do when the bead gets too large. For verticals under 1/4 inch leg size and single pass I just use an inverted Vee motion. The width of the two legs is very slight. I could not think of a more versatile rod for all position AC current. The flux is not excessive, it will fill gaps to some extent, and the penetration is moderate. Randy

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@Richard-Smiths-Computer.local...

Reply to
Randy Zimmerman

I wouldn't say so. A square edge joint could be a full penetration butt weld, depends on the plate thickness and type of welding. I've seen square edge full penetration joints up to about 15mm thick using sub-arc (from both sides).

It could also be a partial-penetration butt weld. It's certainly not a fillet weld.

Reply to

several great suggestions here already- also try backstepping to control your heat input. If your base metal is getting too hot, it will change your bead profile.

When I backstep with 3/32 stick, I usually weld in 4-5 inch beads. 1/8 stick, 6-8 inch beads. Remember, this is about heat input, not deposition rate. Weaving is out, but do use a slight motion from upper right to upper left. Always move up. Do not move sideways. Do not jump up so far that you completely leave your puddle behind. Turn down your amps and get used to using a tight arc. I never stop moving, but I never move too much either. It can be tricky, but if I could pick it up, ....

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