6M RC Controller, 50MHz, info request.

If you really want to make friends and glean some information, Carl, stop calling them controllers and start calling them transmitters.

Futaba and JR both make 50 MHz equipment. Airtronics may too, but I haven't checked lately.

The 53 MHz portion of the band has ham repeaters in between the channels. Usually, the repeaters utilize high gain antennas and much more wattage than the R/C transmitters. This may not be a problem if you are out in the boonies, but in the cities it is pretty much a given. I would avoid 53 MHz and stick with the 50 MHz channels. In fact, that is precisely what I do.

What is your callsign, if I may ask?

Ed Cregger, NM2K

| Can anybody tell me what models of radio controllers from the various | manufacturers will support 50MHz? I am new to RC and am looking for | my first controller. The only decision that I have made thus far is | that I want to operate on 50MHz or 53MHz and 50MHz seems more widely | supported. I am a licensed Ham so that requirement is not an issue.

53 mhz certainly seems to be deprecated, though it's still listed in the band plans. 50 mhz is probably a better choice. You'll probably have a hard time even finding 53 mhz equipment ...

| I need to evaluate the available selection of controllers. | Manufacturer websites don't seem to be very helpful.

They probably do list it, but you may not know where to look. Or you may need to check the web sites of dealers, not manufacturers.

For example, most Futaba transmitters and receivers have ham band versions. The local hobbby store probably won't have it in stock, but

can certainly order it for you. Just buy stuff on channels 01 through 10 -- that's the ham band.

I'm not sure what the stories are for the other manufacturers, but if you call up their distributers they can probably tell you what you need to know.

Just don't call them late for dinner!

| Futaba and JR both make 50 MHz equipment. Airtronics may too, but I haven't | checked lately.

According to

the 8 channel Stylus radio is available on 50 Mhz. It doesn't say anything about the other radios, however -- which means they're probably not available.

Looks like Hitec doesn't make any ham band equipment, according to

Looks like it's just Futaba and JR. Though on the receiver end, there's a lot more options ...

| The 53 MHz portion of the band has ham repeaters in between the channels. | Usually, the repeaters utilize high gain antennas

Actually they're not usually that high of gain. After all, a repeater wants to service an area, not a specific direction. You can't simultaneously have omni-directional and high gain, in spite of the claims of the many WiFi antennas that are for sale :)

| and much more wattage

That much is certainly true. Repeaters often use 1000-1500 watts.

| than the R/C transmitters. This may not be a problem if you are out | in the boonies, but in the cities it is pretty much a given.

To be more specific, there could be repeater outputs from 53.50 to

53.98 mhz, and the 53 mhz RC channels are at 53.X0, where X = 1 through 8, so you could get somewhat far away from any repeater outputs by using 53.10 or 53.80.

The 50 mhz R/C band has repeater inputs relatively close too.

The band plan is here --

if you want to read it all yourself. You could also actually find out where the local 50 mhz repeaters are. There aren't that many of them out there ...

Of course, the 72 mhz band has similar dangers -- there's pager channels in between our R/C channels, and they've certainly crashed more than their share of planes.

| I would avoid 53 MHz and stick with the 50 MHz channels. In fact, | that is precisely what I do.

I'm not aware of anybody making new R/C equipment on the 53 mhz band anyways (is there anybody making new 53 mhz band R/C transmitters?) so

53 mhz may not even really be an option.

| What is your callsign, if I may ask?

See above.

The stacked colinear array on the repeater I used to work on _is_ a high-gain antenna, it's just getting the gain by compressing the elevation pattern into a disk, i.e. the preferred direction is horizontal.

Ed, Thanks for the reply. Somebody already made fun of you missing it but my callsign is in my name tag. I'm a new technician, KG6YKL

Carl

Thanks for the reply. I am in SoCal and there are a number of repeaters in the area. The one with the best coverage here is the Palomar Amature Radio Club with a 6m repeater at 52.680.

After some quick research and a bit of an impulse, I just ordered a Futaba Model 9CAPS from Tower Hobby and two S3107 Micro Servos. The transmitter is on channel 01.

My first plane will be the GWS Slow Stick as recommended by a friend. Of course he said to buy a $99 transmitter until I was sure that I would enjoy the hobby. BUT, my motto is that the only thing worse than giving away expensive hobby equipment that you don't want is having to upgrade too soon. I think that the 9CAPS will last quite a while for me.

Carl

Ever heard of stacked, folded dipole arrays? Not uncommon at all.

Besides, relative to an R/C transmitter's antenna, just about anything else has substantially more gain.

No, 50 to 100 watts is more like it. I've seen some running 20 watts. Still that is much stronger than the one watt of the R/C transmitter.

No, not really. I'd call 2 plus MHz pretty far away.

There are 50 MHz beacons, not repeaters.

Did I mention that I was a licensed ARRL Volunteer Examiner? Had my commercial ticket with radar endorsement since 1982? Graduated from Ryder Technical Institute, specializing in Electronics Technology in 1971. I completed several correspondence courses in Electronics Technology, digital technology and communications, and was a NABER certified Senior Technician? I've also worked in two-way radio sales and service. No? Oh, and I hold an Amateur Extra Class Operator's License and earned it when you had to pass the 20 wpm code test and actually know something about electronics, unlike today.

Granted, I don't hold a single degree, but I know a little bit about the subject.

These days you can get a bachelor's degree just for knowing what I learned years ago in tech school. It's a strange world.

Yes, pager Tx sites can be problematic.

I wasn't asking you, Doug. I know your callsign. I was asking the original poster. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Ed Cregger, NM2K

Congratulations and welcome to the fold, Carl.

My short term memory isn't for, uh, what were we talking about?

Ed Cregger, NM2K

Ed: HERE IS HIS CALL SIGN! Four lines above this one!

| > | The 53 MHz portion of the band has ham repeaters in between the | > channels. | > | Usually, the repeaters utilize high gain antennas | >

| > Actually they're not usually that high of gain. After all, a repeater | > wants to service an area, not a specific direction. You can't | > simultaneously have omni-directional and high gain, in spite of the | > claims of the many WiFi antennas that are for sale :) | | Ever heard of stacked, folded dipole arrays? Not uncommon at all.

Of course not. But on a general purpose amateur repeater it would be uncommon, unless you're trying to link to a repeater in the next city (which is certainly something that people do from time to time.)

| Besides, relative to an R/C transmitter's antenna, just about | anything else has substantially more gain.

Sure. But does that make a vertical dipole high gain? The EME guys? They use high gain antennas. Satellite guys too. Even the HF DXers do if they can. But most repeaters just keep the signal in the horizontal plane and don't want to be more directional than that, and I'm not sure I'd call that high gain. Though I guess it's all a matter of how you define `high gain', and certainly not worth arguing about.

| > That much is certainly true. Repeaters often use 1000-1500 watts. | | No, 50 to 100 watts is more like it. I've seen some running 20 watts. Still | that is much stronger than the one watt of the R/C transmitter.

Depends on the repeater. And I said often, not all ...

| > | than the R/C transmitters. This may not be a problem if you are out | > | in the boonies, but in the cities it is pretty much a given. | >

| > To be more specific, there could be repeater outputs from 53.50 to | > 53.98 mhz, and the 53 mhz RC channels are at 53.X0, where X = 1 | > through 8, so you could get somewhat far away from any repeater | > outputs by using 53.10 or 53.80. | >

| > The 50 mhz R/C band has repeater inputs relatively close too. | | No, not really. I'd call 2 plus MHz pretty far away.

I said repeater inputs. There's a R/C channel at 50.98, and the repeater inputs start at 51.12 -- that's only 0.140 mHz away. (I'm looking at

in case that's not obvious.) (Though in the 72 mHz band, you could easily have a pager tower output only 10 kHz away ...)

I'm not sure how many repeaters actually use that part of the band, but it's there on the band plan, and if you're trying to stay away from the repeaters, you should stay away from the inputs too.

| > if you want to read it all yourself. You could also actually find out | > where the local 50 mhz repeaters are. There aren't that many of them | > out there ... | | There are 50 MHz beacons, not repeaters.

Sorry, I wasn't specific. In that case, when I said 50 mHz, I meant

50-54 mHz or the 6m band. And what I meant is that there's not that many 50-54 mHz repeaters out there, at least not compared to what's on the 2m and 70cm bands.

| Did I mention that I was a licensed ARRL Volunteer Examiner?

No. But I'm not sure how it's relevant.

| Oh, and I hold an Amateur Extra Class Operator's License and earned | it when you had to pass the 20 wpm code test and actually know | something about electronics, unlike today.

Are we discussing electronics? Or credentials? I didn't think so, but maybe I missed something ...

| Granted, I don't hold a single degree, but I know a little bit about | the subject.

Was I even questioning your knowledge of the subject? (see? I can ask rhetorical questions too ...)

| > | What is your callsign, if I may ask? | | > See above. | | I wasn't asking you, Doug. I know your callsign. I was asking the original | poster. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

You were clear. (Why would you ask for the callsign of somebody who hadn't even posted yet?) I guess I wasn't. The original poster's callsign is given in the name field of his posting, and you quoted that when you quoted his posting. I highlighted that for you above, but I guess you missed it. It's still there -- in the thirteenth line in the body of this post. KG6YKL is Carl's call sign, if you missed it.

Thanks Ed. I have a lot to learn. CW is coming kind of slow. (K,R,M,S,O) A lot more characters to learn and I'm not being very diligent in my studies. I am trying to use the G4FON software which uses the Koch method.

It's all fun. I am just starting this RC stuff because I have become intrigued with ATV. Folks have asked me to come up with a mobile camera so I started looking into ATV. They guys at work are all into RC and I'm feeling left out. The rest is history. I am going to work on getting a flying ATV. I've seen some good resources out there.

Thanks for the info.

73 Carl

Ah, we have a similar interest. I too like airborne ATV. I have two 70cm Tx boards that were bought seven or eight years ago. Since then, the 2.4 GHz stuff has come out and the price has dropped considerably.

I too have a 2.4 GHz setup (no audio) that I wish to get airborne soon. I had dreams of being able to fly via downlinked video only, but that dream has slowly faded over time. Too dangerous in my present location. I do have a couple of Wingos awaiting completion that I hope to equip with my 2.4 GHz Tx. That should be fun.

Stick with that code. Just ten minutes every day will have you up to speed in a few months, if you're slow on code like me.

Ed Cregger, NM2K

I can't say that I missed it, Doug. Actually, I forgot it. The vagaries of PAD.

It has been a few years since I have been all that interested in amateur radio. I tend to forget a lot of the specifics in between interest periods, if you know what I mean?

I am a six meter afficianado (sp?), but I still forget things that I haven't used lately.

All I was trying to do was demonstrate to you that while I am certainly not an electronics expert/engineer, I do have a passing knowledge of what is going on, just so you would know.

Have a good day, my friend.

Ed Cregger

I have both the Futaba 6XAS and 9CAS systems on 50.080mhz. Liked the 6X, LOVE the 9C. The 9C also allows you to swap out the tx module so I can use it with my 72mhz planes also. Unfortunately, rx's are limited on 50mhz. Futaba sells full sized ones, of course and FMA Direct and Berg sell micro ones but FMA bumps the price up $20-$30 for 50mhz. I have good results with the Berg 6 which I use in my Magic 3D. There is no price difference between the 50 and 72mhz Futaba rx's. I think JR also might cover 50mhz but I have no experience with JR equipment.

Hitec used to make 50mhz receivers, my father has a Supreme 8 on channel 04 but they no longer carry them.

Crap, what part of So Cal are you in? I am also on 01 and have enjoyed exclusive use of that channel as far as I have been able to tell up till now. I fly at Hansen Dam usually and Sepulveda Basin rarely. Never ran into any kind of interference on 01 at those locations or at The Rock in Castaic or up on Grass Mountain. Other than bogarting my freq ;-) you will love the 9C. The Slow Stick is an excellent slow flier. I am on my third. My second one had been upgraded beyond belief with a brushless/LiPo system which allowed me to drive it into the ground at a destructive speed. The stock ones fly nice and gentle tho so you will be in good shape with yours. One piece of advice is to add a bit of 5 minute epoxy to the control horn keepers after assembly. They are kind of friction attached and can come loose unexpectedly.

If you are going to do ATV, one excellent source of camera and equipment is BlackwidowAV.com I have gone thru the 1.2gig Ebay crap, had some success with a 900mhz Supercircuits.com system but by far the best results were with the BlackwidowAV.com 2.4ghz equipment. Also, I highly recommend checking out RCUniverse.com and the airborne photography and video forum. Lots of knowledgeable folks there!

Yes: It is definitely NOT a "controller"...at first I thought he was talking about an electronic speed control. So, listen up:::: It is a transmitter because it transmits a signal..the other thingy is a receiver because it receives the signal.... When I used to work in a local hobby shop (now retired) and some one came in and asked for a "controller", we usually handed them a Novak speed controller and told them we had many different models....and what's worse is the number of modelers who call a propeller spinner a "nose cone". Nose cones are on rockets and such and spinner goes on a propeller. As for six meters. I have a number of systems (transmitter and receiver) both JR and Futaba on channels 00 and 07 and they work just fine. Like having my own private channels.. However, for years I flew on 53.4 both am and fm..and in the past year, I got hit so bad so many times I had to give up that channel and just use the lower end of the band. Took an elaborate IFR Spectrum analyser out to the local field and found ...nothing...no signals...still I got bounced all over the place on 53.4...never did understand it. Something out there gets me every time and I looked with the spectrum analyzer and also a scanner...nothing. I have a number of Ace Silver Seven AM receivers on 53.4 with deans plugs if anyone is interested... Plus a number of JR 53.4 receiver crystals, too. I had to get JR to change all my 53.4 receivers and transmit modules to 00 and 07. Frank Schwartz W4KFK AMA 123 World's Second best R/C builder and flyer Doing it for 65 years plus...am very active 79 year old geezer W4KFK ham licensed since 1946

Also on six meters you can buy FMA receivers on all 6 meter channels..and Sombra makes a progammable receiver called the Shadow for all channels on 72 mhz (I bought one...fantastic both as to range and bandwidth) and they will be coming out with a programmable 6 meter version this summer. It is as small as abook of paper matches...fully programmable with even three fail safe modes, shift detection and much more. 2 mv sensistivity and a claimed 5khz bandwidth. Unbeleivable!!!

| Took an elaborate IFR Spectrum analyser out to the local field and | found ...nothing...no signals...still I got bounced all over the | place on 53.4...never did understand it. Something out there gets me | every time and I looked with the spectrum analyzer and also a | scanner...nothing.

Remember, your R/C receivers are made with price and size in mind, and can't reject signals on all possible other frequency. The exact additional frequencies that your receiver will receive depend on it's exact design, but for starters you can start looking for signals at your frequency + or - (10.7 mHz * {1,2,3...}) for dual conversion receivers and your frequency + or minus (455 kHz * {1,2,3 ..}) for single conversion receivers. This is hardly the whole story of the possible forms of interference, but you may find what's hitting you.

You spectrum analyzer is certainly of higher quality, and is probably better at rejecting interference on other bands ...

| World's Second best R/C builder and flyer

Who's the first?

| Also on six meters you can buy FMA receivers on all 6 meter | channels..and Sombra makes a progammable receiver called the Shadow | for all channels on 72 mhz (I bought one...fantastic both as to range | and bandwidth) and they will be coming out with a programmable 6 meter | version this summer.

Actually, the Sombra 1 was was programmable to listen to the 50, 72 or

75 mHz bands -- all in the same unit. Alas, they seem to be out of stock for now, though they say they'll make more this summer.

| It is as small as abook of paper matches...fully programmable with | even three fail safe modes, shift detection and much more. 2 mv | sensistivity and a claimed 5khz bandwidth.

A 5 kHz bandwidth isn't so impressive if the transmitter is transmitting with a 10 kHz bandwidth. Obviously if it really is listening on only 5 kHz, the signal outside of that really isn't needed. I'm not sure that reducing the receiving bandwidth gains you much ... but it sounds good, I guess.

| Unbeleivable!!!

What's not to believe? DSPs and microcontrollers have changed/will change lots of things, and not just R/C receivers ...

Of course, what we really need is spread spectrum radio gear -- where our transmitters can bounce around within their band and even if there is noise on a specific channel or two, that won't cause any problems ...

Should be no problem, I am down in San Diego county. Of course, I will be putting up a 2000-ft tower and 10,000 watt amp so you better watch out. ;-)

Thanks for the advice. Will do.