Bit by the glow bug.

I disagree respectfully to some points. Glow certainly aint cheaper. Im about to get my first plane (thanks to this group for the GWS SStik suggestion) Having priced a few planes, i can have a turnkey slowstik from ebay for $200usd. A tower trainer with all equipment and a starter, is in the $350-400 ballpark. Granted, its not half as much plane, but they could both be considered entry level, and both seem perfect for getting your feet wet. I speak with a little authority here because of my car experience. I have several $K invested in a few glow cars and several $C invested in electrics. Electrics (cars) are definately cheaper to get into. A full-race electric car will however be much more $ than an intro gas rig though.

Bigger/easier to see is right on the money, but small+slow does have some advantages. Bigger planes also have a higher cool-factor.

Finally, i cant say from experience, but the *ive heard* that foamies can be used like cruise missles. Dig plane out, Replace prop, fly again. Others care to agree/disagree?

Personally, i cant wait to have a workshop waist-deep in planes to keep my cars company.

On 10/30/2003 10:32 PM Ted shuffled out of his cave and grunted these great (and sometimes not so great) words of knowledge:

I tried to relearn on an electric (had been out of the hobby for 25+ years). The MAJOR problem I encountered was WIND. The electric trainers (the MAJORITY OF THEM) are fine if the wind is under 5mph. Unfortunately, the flying field in my area has an AVERAGE wind of 8 - 10 mph with higher gusts. I encountered no problems with a 40 size trainer and the wind. Yes, they are noisy, yes they do require you to clean them afterwards, BUT, they are easier to see and they handle wind SUBSTANTIALLY better than the majority of electrics.

And before anyone starts pointing out various planes, I know there are exceptions to everything. I did say "THE MAJORITY of electric trainers" have difficulty with wind over 5 mph. And yes, I do fly some electric planes now that I have relearned to fly.

Hi Twister2 and MikeF. I think that you are both right. Training on a glow model would likely be easier, because the few times I've been out to the flying field in Victoria I only saw glow models, and I assume that they'd like to train on what they are familiar with. Glow models are larger, and I like the fact that you can fuel up and go again. Also, with a .40 size engine and suitable radio, I imagine that I could transfer that to almost any kind of model I'd like. Cool. However, the flying field is far enough away that I may not get out too often, and I don't know how to tune engines. Just these points are enough to sway me towards electric.

Electric power may be a little less expensive, but likely depends a lot on whay you buy (of course.) The real attraction for me is a smaller plane that I can fly in local parks / fields, and is more transportable with less gear. That's why I like electric. Maybe I am wrong. Some people may even feel that electric planes are just joys. I am sure it all depends - but if it is a quality toy, that will be fine with me for now. My novice brain tells me I'd be happy flying lazy laps around trees, and practising precise landings and such. I do think electric would be more of a pain, in that you have to charge and maintain your batteries. (I used to drive 1/10 electric off road, and was not satisfied. This time, I'll get good batteries and a good peak charger. I promise.)

Ideally, I'd like to meet fliers of both in Victoria BC so that I can learn more about flying! Thanks, Colin

group for the

more $ than

I reallize this is sensitive topic between glow and electric fliers, however I still come to the realization after experiencing both is that glow is better for training. And as Ted pointed out a 40 sized glow plane definitely handles wind better. As for cost, I would still have to say that glow is cheaper in the long run (if you want to compare them based on there ability to fly in a reasonable wind (6-10 mph). With this in mind, I would like to state the costs as the following:

1. A good BB 46 () is cheaper than a brushless 05 Geared and speed control (0).

1. Glow fuel is typically going to be cheaper (-15 per gallon) versus 3-4 battery packs (8 cell packs @ +)

2. Starter and Glow plug starter (combined is cheaper than a good Battery Charger/Cycler (+).

Don

I had thought about this, and though dragging the stuff around can be a pain, glow is more fun for me.... I do have an electric flyer, which is great.... but it isn't 'real'. Real planes make noise and burn fuel.

I actually enjoy killing 3 hours just to fly for 25-30 minutes...... it beats a lot of the other things I spend time on. . Arne, CT, USA .

| I disagree respectfully to some points. Glow certainly aint | cheaper. Im about to get my first plane (thanks to this group for | the GWS SStik suggestion) Having priced a few planes, i can have a | turnkey slowstik from ebay for $200usd. A tower trainer with all | equipment and a starter, is in the $350-400 ballpark.

You're comparing new and used? Not a very fair comparison.

You can find that tower trainer on Ebay for around $200 as well. On Usenet, at a swap meet or at your local club's bulletin board, you can often do even cheaper.

| Granted, its not half as much plane,

Then why are you trying to compare the two?

| but they could both be considered entry level, and both seem perfect | for getting your feet wet.

If you're by yourself without an instructor, I'd say the electric is definately better for that.

| I speak with a little authority here because of my car experience. I | have several $K invested in a few glow cars and several $C invested | in electrics.

How many of your cars have brushless motors? How many of your cars have more than 7 cell packs?

Your answers are probably `none', but you'll find that lots of electric planes fit these categories, and these categories do tend to cost a good deal more.

Planes usually use larger engines/motors than cars do. The largest engine I've seen in an R/C car is an 0.25 in a T-Maxx monster truck (larger engines probably do exist, but I doubt they get too much larger.) Even your standard glow trainer has a larger engine at 0.40 and it goes way up from there.

(I've got a few electric and glow cars, as well as many glow and many electric planes, so I do know what I'm talking about.)

| Electrics (cars) are definately cheaper to get into. A full-race | electric car will however be much more $ than an intro gas rig | though.

There's a `sweet spot' where electric planes are small, and that's where you have a speed 400 motor or smaller. Any larger, and the price starts going way up.

If all you want to do is toodle around, you can do that pretty cheaply with an electric, but if you want a plane that's got unlimited vertical, for example, it's probably going to be cheaper to do it with a glow plane.

Electrics are convenient, and I fly electric more often than I fly glow nowadays, but once you start looking for high performance or larger airplanes, it's definately cheaper with glow.

| Finally, i cant say from experience, but the *ive heard* that | foamies can be used like cruise missles. Dig plane out, Replace | prop, fly again. Others care to agree/disagree?

Agree somewhat. And if it's a flying wing like a Zagi, since the motor is in the back, you probably won't even break the prop.

Still, the most fun I've had with foamies has been with no motor at all -- slope soaring.

I fly both and gotta agree with Don, additionally,

-You don't even need a starter, for glow.

-Having to charge 5-6 packs the night before for an electric, can be an exercise.

-Constantly, balancing prop/batt/run time/thrust on an electric can be frustrating. I love all the power I have with my gassers.

-Being able to fly the hottest electric does not always mean you can fly/land a 40 sized gas trainer, right off due to the greater mass involved. There is a definite learning curve, progress dependent on skill.

-Generally frequency control at parks is next to non-existent, and can cause crashes.

-Glow fields are generally run by clubs and offer instruction (I chose to learn on my own, and totalled 3 planes before I solo'd)

I have Laser Models, 40 sized Laser, and Speed 300 sized Mini Laser. Cost to set up both were similar, approximately in the $350 range. I have tons more power in the Laser and up to 20 minutes flight time, the Mini Laser is limited by the motor, even though I have a brushless in it, and flights no longer than 8 minutes no matter how much you nurse it.

Why do I have both? Well, I like flying during the week on the way to work, and don't have the time to go to a "real" field, nor do I have time to cleanup afterwards, so the electric is the only way to go. But in terms of flight envelope glow is the only way to go and the only thing I fly on the weekend.

Generally, I consider electrics another specialty, like helis, boats or cars, requiring specialized equipment, therefore I recommend that one get into electrics/glow depending on one's interest/flying requirements. Flying skills learned in either will compliment the other, however starting in electrics then going to glow, to save money, well, I don't think that is a resonable expectation, either way the starting costs are pretty similar.

Just my two cents,

Frank

I thought at first that he was comparing new to used, too. But he actually meant US dollars I think.

You're right, though. There are a lot of bargains available in glow planes and engines because more of them exist. You can get a used trainer and engine for well under $100 usually. I just sold an old Aerostar trainer on consignment at the hobby store for $25. I did some surgery on the tail, test flew it, and then hung it up. I'm glad that somebody is going to be able to get started for cheap.

Arne, you hit the nail on the head there. I get SO sick of electro-bores lecturing me on the 'advantages' of their choice of power unit; they simply don't understand that I enjoy messing with engines, that they have a charm and a soul that I find lacking in a few bits of wire and magnets. I can see that one day, the IC fliers will become the minority, but just as there still plenty of steam train enthusiasts in this age of electric trains, we can carry on with our gloriously messy, noisy power flying!

That would be fine if only it were based on fact.

This is fine because it IS based on fact :-)

However, the balance between a small slow light model flown close in in calm conditions a dew hundred yards from your house and a large fats glo model several miles away is not a foregobe conclusion.

Its perfectly possible to build electric models that CAN handle wind, but they are larger, heavier, more expensive and can't be flown in parks.

Right now and AXI 2820/10 and controller is about $160, and a 10 cell pack to fly it is maybe another $50. You can slap an 11x7 on that and stick it in the front of any 25 sized trainer and not a few 40 sized ones, and get very good performance of the glo variety.

Ok its more expensive than the $100 power plant of a typical speed 400. But if that is what you want...

replies inline...

No. the stick is from an ebay store - price in US dollars. I too have checked out some used trainers, but shipping - from what i hear on this NG - is a bitch. (if anybody in central New Jersey has a plane for sale LMK!)

AH, swap meet...hmmm....gotta find me one of those nearby. Do they usually exist this time of year or do they taper off towards winter? Im a big fan of used anything.

Because (AFAIK) they are both beginner planes and will both teach a guy how to fly while his(her) second and third plane are on the bench. it is kinda 'apples&oranges, but they are both fruits!

Exactly. Even if an instructor was present, the stick gets you airborne for half the price.

None of my BEGINNER cars do. Neither does the SStik. (those come later ;) ) How much you spend and how much you CAN spend eventually are worlds of difference

And ill bet that a topnotch brushless 3d rig would hit the ground wayyy harder than a slowstick trainer. Not that i dont expect to crash...jeez my trucks look like theyve competed in Robot Wars once or twice. I would simply like to start with something that is forgiving and dirt cheap. Available upgrades are a plus too. Being able to hide a 30" plane from the wife = priceless.

Sure, and i see your point. A .40 nitro rig shall kick thee arse of an affordable electric - and as mentioned before, has a substantially higher cool-factor. Dont think for a minute that i dont plan on getting one eventually. I just want some reassurance that i wont turn it back into a kit 2 minutes into the first flight.

Agreed. If there was a bigger SlowStik for similar $, or a glow trainer for less $, then i'd have a real choice.

bingo.

but if you want a plane that's got unlimited

hehe....your getting ahead of me here... When i know enough about flying to do stunts, then i will have the perfect excuse to buy a stunt plane. Assuming i display any ability to control a plane to begin with. I just dunno yet. I have two co-workers and we take my gas cars out at lunch to bash. One guy picked up the TX for the first time in his life and drove like an old pro. Couldnt believe it...the other guy just doesnt get it. Hes crashed (hard) every time he's taken the wheel. Point is, Ive never tried planes. I *think* ill pick it up quickly, but i wouldnt bet $400 on it.

Christmas is coming. Santa will certainly hear about how much i want more planes. Next year he'll have to figure out what a Sukhoi is.....8)

:::mental note::: get slope soarer too Gotta find a slope nearby, but sounds fun.

Any opinions on regular hi-start gliders? My dad has an unbuilt 3m GP Spirit in the basement, i may have to let gramma babysit my boys while i light a fire under his arse to get it built....

exist this time

The best ones are usually scheduled for winter.

Time for me to reply again. I've been into electrics for 4 years now, and into glow for 15. Although I not an expert in electrics, I have seen enough to know that electrics still have a long way to come. Yes if you want to fly around in a GWS TM for fifteen minutes doing pretty much nothing except some loops, than electrics at this level are for you. Cost wise its is about the same as a glow trainer. However if you want to expand your horizons and push the flying envelope, glow is cheaper than a comparably equiped electric. I reallize some people like the idea of electrics and to try to get the last bit of watts for their power systems by reducing weight, screwing with props and changing batteries. The problem is that too may electrics promise more than they can deliver, unless you dump a ton of money into them, and they still may not deliver. This typically is not true for glow planes, simply because glow engines are more efficient in converting potential energy into kinetic energy. Case in point, I recently built a GP Electric Ryan with a AF 05G motor. Even though this was not a stock setup, the plane flew like a dog. I put a new OS 4 stroke 26 in it and it is perfect, not to mention it was a cheaper power plant and puts out more power and about as much noise as the geared electric motor. Don

GP Electric Ryan with a AF 05G motor = 1980s technology