I'm looking to put a gasser into a H9 Edge 540 78".
I know a ZDZ 40B or a Brison 2.4 would be perfect, but they're not
easily available and expensive. I'm considering a Zenoah G-38, a
G-45, or a Fuji BT-32A. The G-38 or BT-32A will fit into the cowl
nicely, and the G-45 will extend down about 1.5".
I want a performance level similar to that which a Moki 1.80 would
give. Does anyone have any experience with these combos? Will a G-38
be enough ponies for the Edge to act like an Edge, or do I need to go
with a G-45? The Edge may carry a smoke system as well.
well, nobody ever listens to my opinion, but I will give it anyway. That
Zenoah will be HEAVY. Weight is your worst enemy. Now, that being said,
any gasser is bad for that plane. The 1/4 scale stuff just always comes out
with high wing loadings with gas engines however I would be putting a gasser
in it myself if it were mine. What I would do is AT LEAST a ZDZ40 (not the
sportsman because it lacks power as compared to the RV) if not the ZDZ50 or
DA50 engine. And even though I would never buy an engine from Keith Baker,
a BME50 is another choice to consider. Compare the weights of the 50cc's
to the 40cc's (I don't know the difference off hand) and if they are similar
I'd get the 50cc.
whatever you do, if you want 3D performance and good strong uplines you have
got to go with something that is light as possible and makes good power and
the Zenoah just ain't it.
good luck with whatever you choose
Talk about "Answers you don't want to hear", well here is #2 as I
count them :-) Take a real hard look at the Dave Patrick Edge and
consider spending a few more bucks like my buddy did last weekend. MAN
what an awesome airplane , tremendous quality for the money. Motors?
The Zenoah's run well, but I would pony up for the best and avoid the
excess weight- ZDZ 40. See what other folks say, but definatly think
I second that........the Dave Patrick Edge would be a phenomenal choice!
Awesome plane.......or the DP Extra for that matter. The Edges fly pretty
solid but the Extra's tend to be more neutral as compared to the Edge.
Edge's have some issues with proper spins and so forth but when flown right,
they look really nice.
Hunt around and see if you can find a BME 44. Mine is on a H9 Cap and turns
a 20X10 just under 7K. I have all the verticle I want! This particular
combination has become my most recent "toy" to go and play with.
Thanks for the replies Guys. You're all giving good advice here, I
think. The Dave Patrick is out this time as I already have the H9 in
hand. I looked closely at both, as well as the Aeroworks 30%, and
grabbed the H9 in a good deal. I know the DP is very good quality and
more convenient with 2 piece wings etc.
The H9 is just manageable in size, well built, and almost as light.
The gear and firewall area will be strengthened and modified as
required. I'm taking your advice to heart and looking closely at
weight, because the extra fat will wind up in the nose and then some
to the tail to balance. I'm looking at the BME, Brison, FPE, ZDZ,
Any experience you can share with balancing this airframe, or the DP
Edge, 1/4 H9 Cap 232 is really appreciated. Even how much nose weight
the Edge required with a known quantity like the Saito 180, OS 160, or
Moki 1.80 would help greatly. That would help me quantify the
you kind of answered your own question. if you want excess weight and mediocre
performance the Zenoah or Fuji will suit the bill. Neither one is all that
strong, and both are heavy. The g45 is really heavy. But if you want
performance, then the better engines start to make sense, and the two best are
either the BME 50 or the DA-50. Brison uses an antiquated mechanical ignition
advance that is one small step better than the magneto of the Fuji or Zenoah,
but is light years away from the electronic advance of the other engines.
interesting comments regarding the edge vs. extra comparison. i suspect you
don't have much stick time on either one, certainly not big ones, where the
differences are obvious. first, by design the edges have longer tail moments
than Extras, and as a result, have better damping. That makes them extremely
forgiving, not prone to unexpected snaps, and very easy to land. The Extras
(all of them) use a double taper wing, which creates a more aft CG, which
creates a more unstable airplane. Whether that's good depends on what you want.
Now, let's look at competition, which you seem interested in. The Edges are
clearly the superior airplane in the lower classes (basic through intermediate)
because of how well behaved they are, and they fly straight. They do require
more energy to snap, which remains an advantage in the lower classes, where
snaps are used sparingly. In the upper classes, the Extras start to have an
advantage because the pilots have to snap more, and rudder authority for
rolling turns also comes into play - again, an area where the Extras have an
advantage - but the Edge is still very competitive. That is why at the TOC the
Extras have been the dominant airplane, but for the last few years, there have
always been pilots competing with either the Carden or Aeroworks Edge - the 540
or the 540T. And when the Aero Works 36% and 40% Edges were popular, that was
THE airplane at IMAC events - often comprising more than 50% of the field. As
far as spin entries, the Edges are much easier to maintain a good heading,
again, because of their longer tail moments. And again, that is a big
advantage in the lower classes. There is nothing unique about spinning and
Edge, and with a touch of down elevator they will clean right up. So for
entry level precision, I always recommend the Edge (assuming it isn't an
overweight pig in which nothing helps) over an Extra or Cap for anyone who is
either a sport flyer, or a lower class competition flyer.
hehehe.......I always love you SCAT guys. I have no idea what I said to
provoke a comment like I have no stick time on either an Extra or Edge. All
I said was the Extra is a more neutral flying plane and the Edge has some
"issues", etc. I don't remember saying anything in particular about the
flight characteristics of either. Anyway, I'm not here to argue. I only
intended to make a statement to help the original poster choose his plane.
However, I will say this........that long tail moment on the Edge also
contributes to crab effect into a crosswind on spin entry, which by the rule
book is not a downgrade but does not look nice and I don't care what you
say, it IS sometimes difficult to get a clean stall with an Edge.......and
if you ever enter a spin with any amount of down elevator and I am in the
judges chair and catch it, you will harvest yourself a nice fat zero.
I agree with most of your comments but don't appreciate the slanderous
I've decided to stick with a Moki 1.80 with Walbro carb. This airframe
really isn't big enough to match well with any of the current gassers
without taking a penalty somewhere. The Walbro carb should help keep
the fiddling/mess down, and $300CAD buys a lotta fuel.
Thanks for your help.
wait until you have to start putting fuel in it...a gallon a day adds up!
there really isn't a penalty to going gas except, for the initial price. and
the good news is that once you have a gas motor, the cost to fly is next to
nothing. and it won't matter if you are low on fuel sat night and you want to
fly first thing sunday morning. i'd take a second look at gas....it is cheap,
burns clean, and is available everywhere. leave glow fuel for the trainers....
Now that I've cleared up the confusion I had (at this end) about the
MVVS engines, I'm taking a close look at their 26 and 35cc gas
engines. Small, light, and powerful. So far they look very good here
well, okay, but 25cc and 35cc are pretty small for a 78" aerobatic airplane.
if you want scale performance, the 35cc is probably okay, but it's going to
struggle around a big loop. i know it's easy to say, but if you have your
heart set on the Edge (which is a good choice) bite the bullet and buy a good
engine, and the best of the bunch is the DA-50. there are used BME 44 and 50s
floating around, that as long as they haven't been crashed, are good engines
also. With either engines you would get good vertical peformance without a
huge weight penalty. There are a bunch of Midwest Extras and Caps floating
around with BME 44's, and they fly very well....about the same size as the
Edge. The DA is going to be stronger. I think 3W also has something in the
40cc range. And don't worry...everyone who has moved into big airplanes goes
through the same thing - but in the end, they bone up and have good airplanes.
I must agree with kopp on this.....get a DA50 and you will not be
disappointed. Sometimes sucking it up and doing the right thing sucks at
first but you will have the power you need and reliability that in my
opinion is worth twice the engine price.....not to mention excellent....and
I do mean excellent service from DA. On the other hand, you can also get
the BME which are fine engines or the ZDZ although lately RCShowcase service
leaves a bit to be desired.........but honestly, choosing one of these
brands is imperative for what you want to achieve. If not, somewhere down
the road you will say to yourself "gee, I sure wish I had gotten the DA" I
guarantee it. I just would hate to see anyone get serious about going to
gas and later thinking he made a mistake just because he got a brand that is
not so hot.
Also, try to get the 50cc size. I don't think a 40cc would be a terrible
choice although you will be lacking power at the upper end of vertical
maneuvers. There is nothing worse than struggling for power on that humpty
bump and ending up with a zero just because you couldn't hold a straight
line or end up flopping over because you run out of go-go, know what I mean?
Never too much power baby!!