H9 Edge 540 Gasser?

Folks:
I'm looking to put a gasser into a H9 Edge 540 78".
I know a ZDZ 40B or a Brison 2.4 would be perfect, but they're not
easily available and expensive. I'm considering a Zenoah G-38, a
G-45, or a Fuji BT-32A. The G-38 or BT-32A will fit into the cowl
nicely, and the G-45 will extend down about 1.5".
I want a performance level similar to that which a Moki 1.80 would
give. Does anyone have any experience with these combos? Will a G-38
be enough ponies for the Edge to act like an Edge, or do I need to go
with a G-45? The Edge may carry a smoke system as well.
Cheers,
Reply to
S.Millington
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well, nobody ever listens to my opinion, but I will give it anyway. That Zenoah will be HEAVY. Weight is your worst enemy. Now, that being said, any gasser is bad for that plane. The 1/4 scale stuff just always comes out with high wing loadings with gas engines however I would be putting a gasser in it myself if it were mine. What I would do is AT LEAST a ZDZ40 (not the sportsman because it lacks power as compared to the RV) if not the ZDZ50 or DA50 engine. And even though I would never buy an engine from Keith Baker, a BME50 is another choice to consider. Compare the weights of the 50cc's to the 40cc's (I don't know the difference off hand) and if they are similar I'd get the 50cc.
whatever you do, if you want 3D performance and good strong uplines you have got to go with something that is light as possible and makes good power and the Zenoah just ain't it.
good luck with whatever you choose
Brad L.
Reply to
Brad Lorance
Talk about "Answers you don't want to hear", well here is #2 as I count them :-) Take a real hard look at the Dave Patrick Edge and consider spending a few more bucks like my buddy did last weekend. MAN what an awesome airplane , tremendous quality for the money. Motors? The Zenoah's run well, but I would pony up for the best and avoid the excess weight- ZDZ 40. See what other folks say, but definatly think about it.
Bill Davenport AMA 28141
S.Mill>Folks:
Reply to
badbill
I second that........the Dave Patrick Edge would be a phenomenal choice! Awesome plane.......or the DP Extra for that matter. The Edges fly pretty solid but the Extra's tend to be more neutral as compared to the Edge. Edge's have some issues with proper spins and so forth but when flown right, they look really nice.
Brad
Reply to
Brad Lorance
Hunt around and see if you can find a BME 44. Mine is on a H9 Cap and turns a 20X10 just under 7K. I have all the verticle I want! This particular combination has become my most recent "toy" to go and play with.
YMMV
Jim Branaum AMA 1428
Six_O'clock_High Target snipped-for-privacy@Guns.com
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
Thanks for the replies Guys. You're all giving good advice here, I think. The Dave Patrick is out this time as I already have the H9 in hand. I looked closely at both, as well as the Aeroworks 30%, and grabbed the H9 in a good deal. I know the DP is very good quality and more convenient with 2 piece wings etc.
The H9 is just manageable in size, well built, and almost as light. The gear and firewall area will be strengthened and modified as required. I'm taking your advice to heart and looking closely at weight, because the extra fat will wind up in the nose and then some to the tail to balance. I'm looking at the BME, Brison, FPE, ZDZ, RCS, Brison.
Any experience you can share with balancing this airframe, or the DP Edge, 1/4 H9 Cap 232 is really appreciated. Even how much nose weight the Edge required with a known quantity like the Saito 180, OS 160, or Moki 1.80 would help greatly. That would help me quantify the problem.
Cheers,
Reply to
S.Millington
With the BME 44, ignition module, and ignition battery on the firewall the balance was achieved by putting the Rx battery about 1/2 the way back over the wing saddle. Servos behind it. No extra lead.
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
you kind of answered your own question. if you want excess weight and mediocre performance the Zenoah or Fuji will suit the bill. Neither one is all that strong, and both are heavy. The g45 is really heavy. But if you want performance, then the better engines start to make sense, and the two best are either the BME 50 or the DA-50. Brison uses an antiquated mechanical ignition advance that is one small step better than the magneto of the Fuji or Zenoah, but is light years away from the electronic advance of the other engines.
Reply to
MasterKopp
brad:
interesting comments regarding the edge vs. extra comparison. i suspect you don't have much stick time on either one, certainly not big ones, where the differences are obvious. first, by design the edges have longer tail moments than Extras, and as a result, have better damping. That makes them extremely forgiving, not prone to unexpected snaps, and very easy to land. The Extras (all of them) use a double taper wing, which creates a more aft CG, which creates a more unstable airplane. Whether that's good depends on what you want. Now, let's look at competition, which you seem interested in. The Edges are clearly the superior airplane in the lower classes (basic through intermediate) because of how well behaved they are, and they fly straight. They do require more energy to snap, which remains an advantage in the lower classes, where snaps are used sparingly. In the upper classes, the Extras start to have an advantage because the pilots have to snap more, and rudder authority for rolling turns also comes into play - again, an area where the Extras have an advantage - but the Edge is still very competitive. That is why at the TOC the Extras have been the dominant airplane, but for the last few years, there have always been pilots competing with either the Carden or Aeroworks Edge - the 540 or the 540T. And when the Aero Works 36% and 40% Edges were popular, that was THE airplane at IMAC events - often comprising more than 50% of the field. As far as spin entries, the Edges are much easier to maintain a good heading, again, because of their longer tail moments. And again, that is a big advantage in the lower classes. There is nothing unique about spinning and Edge, and with a touch of down elevator they will clean right up. So for entry level precision, I always recommend the Edge (assuming it isn't an overweight pig in which nothing helps) over an Extra or Cap for anyone who is either a sport flyer, or a lower class competition flyer.
Reply to
MasterKopp
hehehe.......I always love you SCAT guys. I have no idea what I said to provoke a comment like I have no stick time on either an Extra or Edge. All I said was the Extra is a more neutral flying plane and the Edge has some "issues", etc. I don't remember saying anything in particular about the flight characteristics of either. Anyway, I'm not here to argue. I only intended to make a statement to help the original poster choose his plane. However, I will say this........that long tail moment on the Edge also contributes to crab effect into a crosswind on spin entry, which by the rule book is not a downgrade but does not look nice and I don't care what you say, it IS sometimes difficult to get a clean stall with an Edge.......and if you ever enter a spin with any amount of down elevator and I am in the judges chair and catch it, you will harvest yourself a nice fat zero.
I agree with most of your comments but don't appreciate the slanderous ones.......
peace
Brad
Reply to
Brad Lorance
Guys:
I've decided to stick with a Moki 1.80 with Walbro carb. This airframe really isn't big enough to match well with any of the current gassers without taking a penalty somewhere. The Walbro carb should help keep the fiddling/mess down, and $300CAD buys a lotta fuel.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Shawn Millington
Reply to
S.Millington
Sorry Guys,...It's the MVVS that has a Walbro carb option. Sorry for any confusion.
Man, this is giving me a headache.
Reply to
S.Millington
wait until you have to start putting fuel in it...a gallon a day adds up! there really isn't a penalty to going gas except, for the initial price. and the good news is that once you have a gas motor, the cost to fly is next to nothing. and it won't matter if you are low on fuel sat night and you want to fly first thing sunday morning. i'd take a second look at gas....it is cheap, burns clean, and is available everywhere. leave glow fuel for the trainers....
Reply to
MasterKopp
MasterKopp:
Now that I've cleared up the confusion I had (at this end) about the MVVS engines, I'm taking a close look at their 26 and 35cc gas engines. Small, light, and powerful. So far they look very good here ;-)
Cheers,
Reply to
S.Millington
well, okay, but 25cc and 35cc are pretty small for a 78" aerobatic airplane. if you want scale performance, the 35cc is probably okay, but it's going to struggle around a big loop. i know it's easy to say, but if you have your heart set on the Edge (which is a good choice) bite the bullet and buy a good engine, and the best of the bunch is the DA-50. there are used BME 44 and 50s floating around, that as long as they haven't been crashed, are good engines also. With either engines you would get good vertical peformance without a huge weight penalty. There are a bunch of Midwest Extras and Caps floating around with BME 44's, and they fly very well....about the same size as the Edge. The DA is going to be stronger. I think 3W also has something in the 40cc range. And don't worry...everyone who has moved into big airplanes goes through the same thing - but in the end, they bone up and have good airplanes.
Reply to
MasterKopp
I must agree with kopp on this.....get a DA50 and you will not be disappointed. Sometimes sucking it up and doing the right thing sucks at first but you will have the power you need and reliability that in my opinion is worth twice the engine price.....not to mention excellent....and I do mean excellent service from DA. On the other hand, you can also get the BME which are fine engines or the ZDZ although lately RCShowcase service leaves a bit to be desired.........but honestly, choosing one of these brands is imperative for what you want to achieve. If not, somewhere down the road you will say to yourself "gee, I sure wish I had gotten the DA" I guarantee it. I just would hate to see anyone get serious about going to gas and later thinking he made a mistake just because he got a brand that is not so hot.
Also, try to get the 50cc size. I don't think a 40cc would be a terrible choice although you will be lacking power at the upper end of vertical maneuvers. There is nothing worse than struggling for power on that humpty bump and ending up with a zero just because you couldn't hold a straight line or end up flopping over because you run out of go-go, know what I mean? Never too much power baby!!
Brad L.
Reply to
Brad Lorance

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