Nitro

The principal ingredients are methanol, nitromethane (hence the name), and lubricant. The lubricant is traditionally castor oil, which is still a good thing to use, but recently (i.e. the last 30 years) synthetics have been used as well.

All you really need is methanol and oil, but the nitro will give you more performance potential and (sometimes) easier engine operation.

If you can find suppliers that will sell you ingredients in 5-gallon batches you'll probably save money over buying fuel; it's probably only worth it if you go through 5-10 gallons a year.

You should be able to find directions on the web, including recommendations about how to find the right quality ingredients.

On 18 Feb 2007 19:11:30 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

methanol nitromethane oil (castor and/or synthetic)

If you want to buy the three components and mix them, that's not too hard.

If you want to produce your own methanol and nitromethane, you're on your own. ;o)

Marty

This fact is why I assume that anybody who calls a glow ignition engine a "nitro" engine is younger than 25, and has been snookered by the sleazy advertisers. It seems that merely seeing the words, "nitro" or "turbo" causes instant tumescence, thereby draining the blood from the kid's brain, making him incapable of resisting when he's told to buy a new toy. Industrial psychology - don't you just love it? :-D

Geoff, who's old enough to think of either heart medicine (nitroglycerine) or fertilizer (ammonium nitrate) when he hears "nitro!"

While I have been known to use both of the latter nitro associated products from time to time, I usually think of the old fuelie dragsters when someone says nitro.

The use of the word nitro in reference to a glow engine is good for a ten or twenty point rise in my blood pressure reading at any given time. It ticks me off that I react this way. It's just a word...

Ed Cregger

Making nitromethane can be a life shortening experience.

Ed Cregger

Hi Nitro ;) The other troops gave you the info you need but here's a little addendum. Back in the day (pre nitro) my club and many others made their own fuel. Simply 75% methanol and 25% castor. We bought the methanol in 55 gallon drums. The methanol was strained through cheesecloth and decanted into 1 gallon fuel jugs where it was mixed with the castor. This was pre - plastic fuel containers and all the jugs were tin. We saved the used fuel cans in basements or garages waiting for the next refill (I stored mine in a large wardrobe closet in my bachelor's pad). If I recall correctly some of my cans would rust at the bottom seam (others complained about the same thing). We were inclined to attribute the rust to the storage environment. In our blissful ignorance we didn't realize it was probably because of water accretion. I don't think we knew (at least I didn't) that methanol is hydroscopic, i.e. it absorbs water. As I recall we didn't open the 55 gallon drum until we were ready to begin the laborious process of decanting the methanol and castor into the 1 gallon fuel cans and that probably made the entire process successful. But from time to time there were complaints of contaminated fuel. Due, in all probability, by the comparatively lengthy time the caps were removed from the cans so that we could insert the fuel bulbs with lengthy brass snouts into the cans to refuel our birds. Damn, that *was* a long time ago - :-))

"Ed Cregger" wrote in message news:4zhCh.41726$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews8.bellsouth.net...

What are you trying to accomplish by doing so? Saving money? You'll save only a little bit, so you need to assess whether or not it is worth the hassle finding the ingredients and blending fuel yourself. In most cases it is simply a better idea to buy a gallon at your local hobby store. If you want to do this because you think it would be interesting to do so, you better study up on the subject a bit first, you'll find info on the 'net.

Before you get into manufacturing your own fuel, you are exposing yourself to many variables that can cause you, health, safety issues, and of course liability. The National Fire Protection Association guidelines are so huge for you to research in regards to manufacturing fuels or fuel products. Product liability. Table of distances for manufacturing, local, state and federal permits to possess, process, amounts, inspections. Just enjoy reading about the process and all the research has already been done. Even recently NASCAR inspects fuel for added materials that can lead to disqualification. Go to your friendly hobby dealer's a product that has been tested, is covered by product liability should your nitro engine becomes a hand grenade. Oh the engines have product liability also. Its always fun to research to understand your fuels. Leave it to the manufactures. There are tricks that can be used if your fuel should become aged and exposed to moisture. Coffee filters to remove water since your fuel is hygroscopic. Sucks up humidity. That's why you keep your jug out of the sun and keep it capped tightly. Doc Ferguson

Making it is not so bad - it's what you do with it afterwards that is the killer. Nitromethane is dangerous to store and handle, and releases more energy then TNT when it burns. It is poisonous and carcinogenic, and can decompose into even more dangerous compounds. The stuff can be (and has been) used as rocket fuel. I would not want any of that stuff in my home. Unless you have specific training in handling materials like that, you don't want to go near it.

As long as any absorbed water is insufficient to cause separation of the lub oils in the fuel the water does not cause any problem at all with engine operation. The absorbed water does cause faster corrosion of any metals in contact with the fuel so storage cans and brass tubes in the fuel system will corrode faster if the fuel is wet. Good reason to store in plastic jugs.

A coffee filter will NOT remove the water in fuel. Not even a little bit. It may remove a bit of the lub oils if there is enough water in the fuel to kick some of the oil out of solution so the fuel will be clear again. You are better off with cloudy fuel with the proper total oil content. The act of filtering thru a coffee filter will expose the fuel to a lot of air and give it a chance of picking up even more water. So about the best that can be hoped for from filtering thru a coffee filter is the hope that you have not done enough harm to ruin your engine.

If you keep a cap at least loose on the fuel at all times water pickup simply is not a problem unless it was contaminated when you purchased it. I have fuel that has been stored for years that is still just fine. It does not wear out.

Well i am on a really tight budget, i am hoping to hook up a video camera to my Tower Hobbies Trainer of mine. It looks like i will be spending a few$$$$ to get it working.

study up on the subject a bit first, you'll find info on the 'net.

Then go buy yourself a gallon from Tower Hobbies or you local hobby store. It will be cheaper then mixing it yourself, and you will live longer :-)

Gang: Isn't this getting a little hysterical? Since when is nitromethane dangerous to handle or store? It's not even controlled by the government at all! Even epoxy paint is more rigidly controlled. Dragsters find that their main problem using it as a fuel is that it's really hard to ignite, and so they have to use high energy ignition systems. Of course, they would anyway. Hve you ever watched a drag race where one top fueler "drops a cylinder"? That happens when the fire just goes out in a cylinder, and the other 7 have to do all the work, so you can see you gotta try really hard to get it to even burn in normal conditions. It is, however, a little expensive- last time I bought any, from Mr Klotz himself, at the L.A. model airplane show, in Pasadena, 2000, it was $28 a gallon, and I got about 5 before I left. Supposedly if stored for long periods, it will go bad- (and if I recall the stern warnings -- explode?) but magically, none of mine ever has!!! And I've been mixing my own fuel since 1972- maybe with luck like that I should go to Vegas! Or maybe all the safety concious crowd believes their own hyperbole a little too much, and has lost sight of reality. My advice to you is: sure mix it yourself- just minimize the exposure time to the air, use oil that's 2/3 Klotz Techniplate 100, 1/3 castor,

17-20% oil, 10-40% Nitro, and the rest methanol. You want more oil for smaller engines, less for bigger, and use the nitro as needed and as you can afford to- At the prices I paid last time, it costs about $8 or $9 per gallon of 15% nitro fuel. If you live in L.A., I can tell you where to get the components.

Remember- I'm > study up on the subject a bit first, you'll find info on the 'net. >

Yeah, see what I mean about modern people being conditioned to issue warnings about everything? Go look at a box of Q-Tips, and you'll find a warning printed on it. Seriously!

Well, it's not too dangerous, gasoline is much worse, however as nitromethane is a major component of liquid explosives, it's surprising that there's not some controls on it after 9/11 paranoia pastime.

Yes, that's precisely what occurs when you let stinking lawyers run the country. I understand it all started with Guido Calabresi writing his "get rich quick" book for lawyers titled:- "The Costs of Accidents, A legal and Economic Analysis" in 1970.

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You're spoofing, right?

If it isn't dangerous under certain conditions, why is a shock-sensitive dye included by law?

The dye goes from one color to another to indicate when the nitromethane is shock sensitive. The colors are blue and pink. I can't remember which is which these days.

Myth has it that many years ago, a truck hauling nitroglycerin detonated and removed a good portion of a mountain top in West Virginia. Legislation came about from this accidental explosion. While they were at it, the legislators, while making it unlawful to haul nitroglycerine in this manner, also did some research and included nitromethane and some other nitrated derivatives. Being politicians, we do not know how well educated they were on the subject, but I'd err on the side of safety.

I am not a chemist or an engineer. I am just repeating the old myth of many years ago. But if nitromethane isn't dangerous, why the need for the dye?

Ed Cregger

In other words you have no basis for even having an opinion and are too dirt lazy to even spend five minutes on the net educating yourself. Did you know that the normal kitchen has more then enough toxins on the shelves to allow me to poison a dinner party of four? Well, now you know so I suppose you will never go in a kitchen again the rest of your life. Did you know that in the average household I can find the ingrediants to make a bomb that will at least blow your hand off? And in one house in ten I can probably find enough stuff to kill anyone in the same room where the explosion happens? Maybe you better go clean out your house. Did you know that a glass of water right out of the tap has the potential explosive energy to vaporize you and your house? Not only that it will kill everyone within quite a few miles around ground zero if conducted properly. You better make sure you never get closer then a few miles to a glass of water the rest of your life or it may go off.

A rational person might wonder if all these horrid dangers exist in our every day lives how is it that we are not all dead? A rational person might conclude that while every statement above is without doubt a true statement it is not always so easy to make these things happen. Someplace between extremely unlikely to make them happen unless you have considerable technical knowledge and simply impossible for you to make them happen.

Can nitromethane be made into a explosive? Sure. A bloody good one in fact. Next time I blow up stumps I may use it. Is it easy to do? Sure if you know what you are doing. A few minutes on the net and you could get enough information you could probably manage to kill yourself and win a Darwin award.

The fact is nitromethane properly stored and handled is no more dangerous then lots of other things in our lives. You can not make it explode by any shock short of blasting caps. I am not sure even they will do it to nitro that has not been sensitized. It has a self ignition temp of over 400 deg C. Very close to the same as the self ignition temp for methanol and considerably higher then the self ignition temp of ethanol. When it ignites it burns it does not explode other then in the sense of any other flamable vapor may explode when it ignites. I can blow a house to smitherins with a natural gas explosion for instance. It would be a lot harder to blow it up with nitromethane.

The stuff has a safety rating that calls it a flamable liquid for shipping purposes. This is the same shipping rating that all kinds of things have such as gasoline or methanol. It is also a probably human carcinogen. But then so is gasoline and playbox sand.

Just keep it in a good tight container for storage. If you are going to mix fuel stick to one of the tested formulas. Do not drink it. Do not use it as fuel in your zippo lighter. Do not wash your hands in it very often. It does an excellent job of dissolving the CA on your hands by the way. It is the main ingrediant in debonder. Do not throw some in old paint or chemical cans trying to do whatever you are trying to do when you do this sort of dumb stunt. In other words simply use a little common sense and you will never have a problem. It is a heck of a lot safer then that spray can of ether you have to start your car on a cold day. It is a heck of a lot safer then that two or five gallon can of gasoline you keep in your garage for the lawn mower and chain saw. It is 100s or 1000s of times safer then the prop on your plane. Misuse it and it will kill you. But remember you have the toxins in your own kitchen that I could use to kill you also. You are much more likely to be killed in your car on your way to the flying field then by sensible use of nitromethane. So are you going to walk in the future?

What wonderful social skills you have.... Why don't you head to the kitchen and mix yourself up a nice "meal" rather than insulting contributors of the newsgroup?

Good flying, desmobob